Patch 3.38 Discussion

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Anyone else upset with the lack of addition of a 245 relic? Cause if we get a 250 in 3.4, then the primal will pretty much be dead on arrival compared to a weapon where you can pick your own stats. Also an upgrade would have been something to do waiting for 3.4.

Because that is meant to happen. 3.4 will give us a "short phase" relic from i240 to i250 so the Lore weapon now more accesible gets irrelevant so people farm the new tomestone for a i+250 new tomestone or the newer relic.

[Phafi]

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So you're open to the idea of having content DOA rather than spreading it out?

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

So you're open to the idea of having content DOA rather than spreading it out?

Content is already dead on arrival. And their relevance gets shorter and shorter. There is no reason to do absolutely anything anymore because:

1.- It takes too long.
2.- Its too grindy.
3.- Next patch will make shorter.

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy, people would replay the stuff much more, making content to last longer. That illusion of "long term goals keep content alive for longer" is that, an illusion. The easier things are to get, the more they are played and replayed, on top of that focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest) and people would replay it much more, probably even do it for alt-classes, keeping content relevant for much longer.

[Centershock]

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy, people would replay the stuff much more, making content to last longer. That illusion of "long term goals keep content alive for longer" is that, an illusion. The easier things are to get, the more they are played and replayed, on top of that focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest) and people would replay it much more, probably even do it for alt-classes, keeping content relevant for much longer.

Are we the only two here who found the 2.0 relic quests fun? Because there was little grind involved (beat 6 of these 3 enemies) and it was challenging. (When it was released then.)

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Are we the only two here who found the 2.0 relic quests fun? Because there was little grind involved (beat 6 of these 3 enemies) and it was challenging. (When it was released then.)

I`ve asked all of my friend list and linkshells and FC... Probably 90% of the people i know in my server (cactuar, 120 people aprox) have said the loved the very first stage of 2.0 relic quest.I honestly belive XIV is absolutely afraid of that burned "thought" content, so afraid of just a handfull of people to be able to come in a month or so and say "i did all my relics! this game has no content!" that they simply overdid it so they never have to deal with that, while, that minuscle part of the population is being kept in control by making the larger part of their players to simply hate/skip the relic quest altogether. I never heard anyone saying "Im so happy about finishing this goal, i proud of all my work" usually is more like "F**k relic quest im f****g DONE with it". All that to just prevent what... That 00.01% of the players that might posibly have the spare time to dedicate the whole month to farm 11 relic weapons dont come in here and say they got nothing to do anymore?

Extremes are never good, the developer team absolute terror for that "content draught" that keeps all goals long term and the flow of new content pumping much faster than those long term goals are worth getting or relevant, thus, content is irrelevant soon after released, completely irrelevant a patch later and nothing is anymore worth the trouble getting since long term goals are not worth it if a patch later they just get irrelevant and then they get easier to get anyway. Many people is waiting for 4.0 to land so they do Alexander Savage with echo and unsync to not deal with it right now, the reward isnt good enough neither...

What will be the point of getting the last raid weapon at Alexander Midas 12 Savage if when 4.0 arrives an NPC midway though the levels 64 to 66 will sell weapons exactly like it or even better for 20,000 gil?

This game whole reward vs relevance vs time investment is messed up. Its time to turn the ship a bit towards the other direction. Pure horizontal progression isn`t good neither (GW2 is testament of that). There needs to be a stick and a carrot to make people want to get things, but that has to come with FUN first, grinding esoterics or atmas or crystals or bashing the heads of players against near impossible tight DPS checks isn't fun, people is NOT making their relics, they are NOT doing savage, they are NOT following the carrot anymore. Make the carrot easier to follow, and more tastier, and more fun to persuit... If we are the absolute example of vertical progression... We need to get a tad more horizontal so we end up being "diagonal" or a truly progressive curve.

[Mycow8me]

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy, people would replay the stuff much more, making content to last longer. That illusion of "long term goals keep content alive for longer" is that, an illusion. The easier things are to get, the more they are played and replayed, on top of that focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest) and people would replay it much more, probably even do it for alt-classes, keeping content relevant for much longer.

Its so true. With vertical progression like this, we need stuff that is less grindy. By the time you get it, its lifespan is that much shorter. That and most players are playing alt jobs and would LOVE to gear up more than 1 main class, tome cap limits included.

[Phafi]

making content to last longer

This is achieved by adding additional amounts of MEANINGFUL rewards or by making drops not guaranteed.

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy

Making things easier and less time consuming will just make people complain about having nothing to do rather than complaining about how tedious the existing content is.

focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest)

A Relic Reborn was entertaining because there was a "challenge" aspect of needing to beat Titan HM, which at the time (partly due to the rate at which the servers tracked people's positions) was not easy for a lot of people.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Making things easier and less time consuming will just make people complain about having nothing to do rather than complaining about how tedious the existing content is.

No. Making things easier and less time consuming will allow people to just replay the content for even longer periods of time than the current method does. People in its larger part just quits content after getting 1 or 2 rewards. A good portion of the players doesnt even bother. If rewards were easier to get, people would repeat the content several times, going well beyond the current "relevant time". Probably even ignoring the whole natural decay and keep doing it even after the content isn`t worth getting anymore, just because player controlled progression beats RNG based progression.

The easier and faster you get things and rewards, the more people gets invested on it and the more people is willing to do the tasks and repeat them. The only ones that might come to complain about nothing to do is the "i have 20 hours free of my day cause im a NEET crowd". Which probably is an issue for the devs since Japan has a good portion of MMORPG gamers in that category, but for the rest of the world, that is not the case. For those cases, they need a completely separate long term reward system that is in now way better or even related to the main rewards of the game for the rest of the world.

Honestly, if the relic had started with the "lowered requisites" people would probably still farming atmas/doing books and basically all steps of it since the progress would be or feel more in their control than RNGish, most players would average 3 to 4 relics instead of just 0 to 1... Content would be alive, goals would last longer as it would be set by the players themselves...

Yes, every once in a while some guy would appear here to scream "i finished all my relics in a month, i have nothing to do!"... And...? one guy vs hundreds of players enjoying/replaying the content.

[Centershock]

Making things easier and less time consuming will just make people complain about having nothing to do rather than complaining about how tedious the existing content is.

I, for one, am not asking for things easier to do. There is no direct correlation between easy and grindy. Originally, the steps needed to go from Awoken to Anima weapon was horrifically grindy.

I do agree, however, that if the content was more accessible, more people would do them.

They really should never get crafters involved for any future relic quests, including the ones for 4.0.

[jameseoakes]

What's with all the crafter hate?