Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[Cakekizyy]

Guildhests wouldn't work. Every one I have been in, people ignore instructions fron npc.

[Lambdafish]

Lot of people making a mountain out of a mole hill here, and then suggesting really stupid things to fix perceived mountain they have created.

Quality of life changes exists to improve player experience and make systems more intuitive and easier to grasp, the devs have put in some great QoL changes for molehills in the past (quest icon changes, ability to see waymarks on minimap), and there is no drawback to improving the visibility and accessibility of a skill required by all tanks. You seem to like to blame players (get good scrub tank mentality etc.), and maybe it is the players fault, but that does not mean that the system cannot be improved.

If making this change allows even one tank to get provoke when they would have otherwise missed it, then that is one less tank without provoke in the DF. Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to.

[Krazymagic]

From DRK 30 to drk 60 I can't say I ever came into a situation where the party was ever in danger because I didn't have provoke. I think there was one time where I had to spend 1 extra rotation to gain Agro, but that didn't even put the party in danger

Face it, in standard 4 man dungeons/ and hm 50 trials, and even 50+ msq dungeons/trials you can easily never need it.

I main PLD and SCH. They are the two classes Ive probably played the most. I could tell you several stories when playing sch where a tank didn't have provoke and it caused a wipe. The point is this....If you want to be a sub par tank, and you are sub par when you gimp on important cross class abilities, then that is your choice. There is not a single ability across all 3 tanks that can give you instant threat aside from Provoke. I shouldn't need to explain why this is worthwhile for a tank to have. The point is that there is no reason not to have it. We are talking about something that can be obtained in 1 day. No matter what class I play, I never make it a point to intentionally gimp myself nor do I have a mindset of minimal effort to get by. Its your choice though of course to do what you will, but its also peoples choice as to wether they want to play with someone who has such a mindset; so if a situation arises where your minimal effort approach manifests itself by hurting a groups gameplay, don't get butt hurt if/when you get kicked from the group.

[Krazymagic]

Quality of life changes exists to improve player experience and make systems more intuitive and easier to grasp, the devs have put in some great QoL changes for molehills in the past (quest icon changes, ability to see waymarks on minimap), and there is no drawback to improving the visibility and accessibility of a skill required by all tanks. You seem to like to blame players (get good scrub tank mentality etc.), and maybe it is the players fault, but that does not mean that the system cannot be improved.

If making this change allows even one tank to get provoke when they would have otherwise missed it, then that is one less tank without provoke in the DF. Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to.

Im actually quite reasonable. I enjoy most all the QoL changes that you mention. What change are you talking about specifically that you would like to see though? I dont see where the system is broken in any way here. Changes I generally frown upon are massive system overhauls that get suggested to fix a problem who's root cause is player ignorance or laziness. "Lets rework an entire system for a 1% minority of players who simply dont care or just dont get it" type of changes.. I dont think those are worthwile avenues.

Please let me know though what change you are eluding to when you say "Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to."

[bass9020]

Guildhests wouldn't work. Every one I have been in, people ignore instructions fron npc.

Which is sad because a lot of guildhest teach you different things that do appear later in the games content. Its a shame they stopped guildhests or didn't make them more strict. But again what is strict in this game?

[Lambdafish]

Im actually quite reasonable. I enjoy most all the QoL changes that you mention. What change are you talking about specifically that you would like to see though? I dont see where the system is broken in any way here. Changes I generally frown upon are massive system overhauls that get suggested to fix a problem who's root cause is player ignorance or laziness. "Lets rework an entire system for a 1% minority of players who simply dont care or just dont get it" type of changes.. I dont think those are worthwile avenues.

Please let me know though what change you are eluding to when you say "Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to."

Personally I think that WARs and DRKs will get their own taunt skill in 4.0, either as a new lvl 60-70 skill, or as an additional lvl 50 skill (like stoneskin II), with provoke being taken off the cross class system. The skill is too vital to be considered "optional".

[Krazymagic]

Personally I think that WARs and DRKs will get their own taunt skill in 4.0, either as a new lvl 60-70 skill, or as an additional lvl 50 skill (like stoneskin II), with provoke being taken off the cross class system. The skill is too vital to be considered "optional".

I dont think it will happen personally, but a change like this wouldn't bother me. Provoke isnt unique to this situation. Swift cast is the same situation for healers....and you have to level Thaumaturge to acquire it, which is a DPS class. Healers could argue they dont wanna dps, and shouldn't have to level a dps to acquire this important skill. You can make similar arguments for several classes, including crafting classes. The whole point of cross class abilities is to strongly encourage players to do more than one class. Do not expect SE to make changes that nullify this need, it is central to the games design in fact. This was also true in FFXI with sub jobs. SE has a tract record on this kind of issue. I would be very surprised if SE made a taunt for each tank.

EDIT: I would also add that the only way your suggestion even makes sense, and would work, is if every tank got a taunt at roughly the same level. If you remove provoke from closs class, then add a taunt for the other tanks post level 50.....bad design. wont happen.

[Zojha]

Personally I think that WARs and DRKs will get their own taunt skill in 4.0, either as a new lvl 60-70 skill, or as an additional lvl 50 skill (like stoneskin II), with provoke being taken off the cross class system. The skill is too vital to be considered "optional".

For DRK, it would actually be exceptionally easy - Give the effect to a Dark Arts'd oGCD. Plunge, for example. It would reduce DRK DPS a little in swap-heavy encounters, but that aside... it's workable and job-flavored.

[SendohJin]

EDIT: I would also add that the only way your suggestion even makes sense, and would work, is if every tank got a taunt at roughly the same level. If you remove provoke from closs class, then add a taunt for the other tanks post level 50.....bad design. wont happen.

agree. it's also a waste of time to mess with existing skills on current jobs and classes that are not broken.

but the game is certainly not above having the exact same thing across multiple classes/jobs and just name them something different. a new job might have a Provoke-like spell/ability and not have to cross-class Provoke at all.

[AnaviAnael]

Guildhests wouldn't work. Every one I have been in, people ignore instructions fron npc.

They keep killing the turtle. Why...WHY do they keep killing the turtle?!?