Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[Krazymagic]

Ive been out of this thread for a while, just glancing through the discussions since I last posted though Im just shaking my head. We have some truly ridiculous suggestions coming out of this thread. Everyone wants to fix a problem that really doesnt even exist. If there is a problem with tanks not getting provoke, its the individuals problem, not the games problem. Cross class abilities are a huge importance to many classes, not just tanks. It is a vital part of the game. Its even vital for crafters. Lot of people making a mountain out of a mole hill here, and then suggesting really stupid things to fix perceived mountain they have created. Personal responsability, individual incentive, this is what it takes for anyone to be a good player. If a tank wants to skip provoke, let them be a sub par tank - they do have the option to do that, and I have the option to remove them from my group if I feel they are poor and/or that their willful ignorance is hurting my gameplay. The devs need not spend any efforts fixing something that isnt a problem, everything is fine just how it is with regards to provoke.

[Lambdafish]

Lot of people making a mountain out of a mole hill here, and then suggesting really stupid things to fix perceived mountain they have created.

Quality of life changes exists to improve player experience and make systems more intuitive and easier to grasp, the devs have put in some great QoL changes for molehills in the past (quest icon changes, ability to see waymarks on minimap), and there is no drawback to improving the visibility and accessibility of a skill required by all tanks. You seem to like to blame players (get good scrub tank mentality etc.), and maybe it is the players fault, but that does not mean that the system cannot be improved.

If making this change allows even one tank to get provoke when they would have otherwise missed it, then that is one less tank without provoke in the DF. Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to.

[Cakekizyy]

Guildhests wouldn't work. Every one I have been in, people ignore instructions fron npc.

[bass9020]

Guildhests wouldn't work. Every one I have been in, people ignore instructions fron npc.

Which is sad because a lot of guildhest teach you different things that do appear later in the games content. Its a shame they stopped guildhests or didn't make them more strict. But again what is strict in this game?

[AnaviAnael]

Guildhests wouldn't work. Every one I have been in, people ignore instructions fron npc.

They keep killing the turtle. Why...WHY do they keep killing the turtle?!?

[Krazymagic]

Quality of life changes exists to improve player experience and make systems more intuitive and easier to grasp, the devs have put in some great QoL changes for molehills in the past (quest icon changes, ability to see waymarks on minimap), and there is no drawback to improving the visibility and accessibility of a skill required by all tanks. You seem to like to blame players (get good scrub tank mentality etc.), and maybe it is the players fault, but that does not mean that the system cannot be improved.

If making this change allows even one tank to get provoke when they would have otherwise missed it, then that is one less tank without provoke in the DF. Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to.

Im actually quite reasonable. I enjoy most all the QoL changes that you mention. What change are you talking about specifically that you would like to see though? I dont see where the system is broken in any way here. Changes I generally frown upon are massive system overhauls that get suggested to fix a problem who's root cause is player ignorance or laziness. "Lets rework an entire system for a 1% minority of players who simply dont care or just dont get it" type of changes.. I dont think those are worthwile avenues.

Please let me know though what change you are eluding to when you say "Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to."

[Lambdafish]

Im actually quite reasonable. I enjoy most all the QoL changes that you mention. What change are you talking about specifically that you would like to see though? I dont see where the system is broken in any way here. Changes I generally frown upon are massive system overhauls that get suggested to fix a problem who's root cause is player ignorance or laziness. "Lets rework an entire system for a 1% minority of players who simply dont care or just dont get it" type of changes.. I dont think those are worthwile avenues.

Please let me know though what change you are eluding to when you say "Personally I do think this is something we will see in the future, there is no reason not to."

Personally I think that WARs and DRKs will get their own taunt skill in 4.0, either as a new lvl 60-70 skill, or as an additional lvl 50 skill (like stoneskin II), with provoke being taken off the cross class system. The skill is too vital to be considered "optional".

[Krazymagic]

Personally I think that WARs and DRKs will get their own taunt skill in 4.0, either as a new lvl 60-70 skill, or as an additional lvl 50 skill (like stoneskin II), with provoke being taken off the cross class system. The skill is too vital to be considered "optional".

I dont think it will happen personally, but a change like this wouldn't bother me. Provoke isnt unique to this situation. Swift cast is the same situation for healers....and you have to level Thaumaturge to acquire it, which is a DPS class. Healers could argue they dont wanna dps, and shouldn't have to level a dps to acquire this important skill. You can make similar arguments for several classes, including crafting classes. The whole point of cross class abilities is to strongly encourage players to do more than one class. Do not expect SE to make changes that nullify this need, it is central to the games design in fact. This was also true in FFXI with sub jobs. SE has a tract record on this kind of issue. I would be very surprised if SE made a taunt for each tank.

EDIT: I would also add that the only way your suggestion even makes sense, and would work, is if every tank got a taunt at roughly the same level. If you remove provoke from closs class, then add a taunt for the other tanks post level 50.....bad design. wont happen.

[SendohJin]

EDIT: I would also add that the only way your suggestion even makes sense, and would work, is if every tank got a taunt at roughly the same level. If you remove provoke from closs class, then add a taunt for the other tanks post level 50.....bad design. wont happen.

agree. it's also a waste of time to mess with existing skills on current jobs and classes that are not broken.

but the game is certainly not above having the exact same thing across multiple classes/jobs and just name them something different. a new job might have a Provoke-like spell/ability and not have to cross-class Provoke at all.

[Lambdafish]

Provoke isnt unique to this situation. Swift cast is the same situation for healers....and you have to level Thaumaturge to acquire it, which is a DPS class.

Swiftcast/Quelling Strikes/Blood for blood etc. are slightly different. They are very useful skills to have, but all content CAN be beaten without them, if people don't need to be raised often, then you can hard raise just fine, and quelling isn't needed if you have very good tanks and watch your enmity. I'm not saying these skills are not highly recommended for high level play, but the point is that tank swaps are impossible without provoke, meaning that most of the time no provoke means an instant wipe, and this is the only skill where this is the case.

EDIT: I would also add that the only way your suggestion even makes sense, and would work, is if every tank got a taunt at roughly the same level. If you remove provoke from closs class, then add a taunt for the other tanks post level 50.....bad design. wont happen.

I don't mind what level they give it at, but level 50 would be fine, as 8-man content is not accessible until level 50, which is the where provoke is required most (before that it is only helpful in a few situation).