Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Im glad there is people bringing data into the discussion finally.

But im sad to see me and the usual "haters/ranters" have been so right... Populations are struggling. The game is having a hard time keeping people arround and even if many of us hinted it from before (for example i notice it in the market board) now we have real back up data.

This all just shows that, no matter what, a change of focus needs to be done, one year into the expansion, three years into the game, the developer team needs to really re-evaluate several things about their content. Progression vs grinding, reward vs effort, timesinks vs update patchs, server populations vs queues...

Honestly, the game looks like it could use some server merges.

[Jetstream_Fox]

I keep telling the people in Jenova that we're close to bottom of the barrel in terms of clearing content and being a low to med size server. Kinda funny to see these numbers and also realize the lack of community this server has.

[Hyrist]

I keep telling the people in Jenova that we're close to bottom of the barrel in terms of clearing content and being a low to med size server. Kinda funny to see these numbers and also realize the lack of community this server has.

Just realize that it's a shallow barrel to begin with. Raiding's just not as attractive here as it is in other games which employ other methods of endgame sucessfully as well as a wider difficulty span.

As far as a sense of community. There needs to be a more-or less unifying interest in a server to make one feel like a thriving community. There is this idea among older players that the game itself must be responsible for bringing the community together which I disagree with. While SE can provide the tools, it is really up to the player base to make use of those tools to bring people together.

Balmung has the highest activity and is low on the scale of Raid Clears. Why? Because it's the Unofficial Roleplaying server. The sense of community there is strong. Even if it is in segmented circles, a lot of those circles overlap, and there is a largely united interest to work from. Best way to get a server to feel alive together, IMO, is to make something of the server.

[Remus]

snip

Well even without the data its quite easy to see. Even though chances are this isn't accurate it does give a somewhat close number that i expected and i'm not too impressed. The way they have handled content i'm not surprised by that outcome. They focus on trying to get new players too much and forgetting about trying to retain current subs.

[Thayos]

They focus on trying to get new players too much and forgetting about trying to retain current subs.

Yeah, this data shows the same two conclusions that all the other surveys have shown:

1. The game's population is healthy.

2. While the population is healthy, the current trends aren't sustainable; SE needs to do better at keeping people engaged.

The situation isn't nearly as dire as the most vocal Negative Nancies make it out to be. But it's not all sunshine and rainbows, either.

Up above, Hyrist talks about how the community can play a role in that, and how it's not all up to the development team giving us new content. I'm somewhere in the middle. I think the developers need to give us real endgame content that doesn't limit itself to eight-man (usually static) parties. If we can get real endgame that's doable by FCs of different sizes, THEN the playerbase can do the rest by forming different types of communities that thrive in this content.

[Kosmos992k]

Just realize that it's a shallow barrel to begin with. Raiding's just not as attractive here as it is in other games which employ other methods of endgame sucessfully as well as a wider difficulty span.

Well regardless of the issues with raid difficulty in FFXIV (Yes we need a middle tier), I think the issue goes beyond that, and I've felt that this would become a problem since the early days of coil. Raiding itself is in decline, in addition to the issues posed by the difficulty problem. The very nature of having a static that must hold together in order to manage lockouts and learn the synchronized swimming that raiding in FFXIV has become creates problems for the community; people without a group are disenfranchized, people with a group leave because of differneces or schedule problems. Life impacts all these things and the result is that statics will break down over time. But because Static teams create an insular community of players who can complete end-game and raid content - because they have a static - it becomes ever harder for new players to break into raiding. The legion of inter-personal conflicts and similar issues raised by Static groups crossing FC boundaries or multiple link shells should not be ignored either.

Additionally there is a pronounced gear gap emerging between active end-game players and everyone else which makes it harder still for players to join the raiding community. Fundamentally though, the modern gamer does not have the time, or a stable enough life schedule to comit to certain blocks of time for raiding. Life itself gets in the way. Throw in the issues with RNG on gear drops, weekly lockouts and so forth, and you have a lot of factors all contributing toa decline in raiding.

The completion numbers for Alex tend to back this up. Many of these factors impact raiding in other games too. Raiding is out of fashion, it's an old fashioned game mechanic that relies on forced grouping and forced schedules.

As far as a sense of community. There needs to be a more-or less unifying interest in a server to make one feel like a thriving community. There is this idea among older players that the game itself must be responsible for bringing the community together which I disagree with. While SE can provide the tools, it is really up to the player base to make use of those tools to bring people together.

The community cannot simply pull itself up by the boot straps, the issues outlined above are not unique to FFXIV, and didn't really talk about community much. I do agree that the community can help, but as long as raiding requires a style of play that conflicts with lives and creates insular groups, raiding will remain a narrow sliver of the game.

Raids need at least one more difficulty tier, as well as some light party raid content to encourage smaller groups which form moreeasily and informally to complete raid level content, The game needs to facilitate easier grouping and break down the rigid formal lines of the static groups, into a more dynamic system of grouping, not quiteparty finder, more like allowing players to participate in multiple statics. The changes to loot since coild look like they should help, but the loot/drops - especially gear - should be equally rewarding for all those in the team.

Beyond that, the encounters need to be more fun, and the community needs to be less uptight annd more tolerant to imperfect players. Even if all these things were fixed, I think it may be time to recognize that raiding may be past it's prime in general

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

1. The game's population is healthy.

The game population isn`t healthy, far from it for a game of this scope and cost. We are steps away from other games that are F2P, that isn`t good.

[aesteval]

The game population isn`t healthy, far from it for a game of this scope and cost. We are steps away from other games that are F2P, that isn`t good.

So other games, without the upfront game or subscription cost and a lower barrier to entry, have a similar number of players playing and that's not a good thing to have monthly income from a similar number of players? If anything I'd expect F2P to have more players than subscription. What are you basing this judgement on?

[Thayos]

The game population isn`t healthy

XIV's population is awesome for a subscription game. I'd be waaaaaaaaay more worried about a F2P game with only 500k active players, lol.

The problem isn't the game's current population; it's the trend line showing that at this time next year, the active playerbase could be closer to 350k or 400k, which would then be cause for concern.

The population is going to skyrocket again when 4.0 launches, just as it did when 3.0 launches. The question is, can the devs do better this time at engaging and retaining players?

[zosia]

Well regardless of the issues with raid difficulty in FFXIV (Yes we need a middle tier), I think the issue goes beyond that, and I've felt that this would become a problem since the early days of coil. Raiding itself is in decline, in addition to the issues posed by the difficulty problem. The very nature of having a static that must hold together in order to manage lockouts and learn the synchronized swimming that raiding in FFXIV has become creates problems for the community; people without a group are disenfranchized, people with a group leave because of differneces or schedule problems. Life impacts all these things and the result is that statics will break down over time. But because Static teams create an insular community of players who can complete end-game and raid content - because they have a static - it becomes ever harder for new players to break into raiding. The legion of inter-personal conflicts and similar issues raised by Static groups crossing FC boundaries or multiple link shells should not be ignored either.

It only takes you kosmos, you truly have a propensity to drag me out of lurking.

That's why we have normal modes. People can see the content without a static. Problem solved. There are plenty of casual and midcore groups that form, FFXIV recruitment on reddit is proof positive that you don't have to be a no life hardcore to raid in this game. There are groups that only run 3-4 lockouts a week. This notion that any hard content in this game always equals several hours and nights a week relegated to raiding is simply not true for most raiders.

Also, with the introduction of raid finder, you really don't need a static anymore for midcore fights like a5s.

Additionally there is a pronounced gear gap emerging between active end-game players and everyone else which makes it harder still for players to join the raiding community. Fundamentally though, the modern gamer does not have the time, or a stable enough life schedule to comit to certain blocks of time for raiding. Life itself gets in the way. Throw in the issues with RNG on gear drops, weekly lockouts and so forth, and you have a lot of factors all contributing toa decline in raiding.

Not a huge deal, every six months brings a complete gear reset and with new powerful craftable and meldable gear. If you really think gear availability is the problem in this game, then I am glad you are not in charge. You are completely out of touch on this issue, do you even play the end game? The latest sets of dungeons drop 215 gear, you literally could have been raid ready week one of midas savage just from spamming the latest set of dungeons.

Not to mention this problem you are highlighting does not help at retaining players but rather catching up players that don't stick around or who are not active. The problem this game is having is keeping people subbed at the end game. We don't need more catch up gear handouts like you are insinuating. The end game needs more depth, not more gear handouts.

This game already hands out gear for little to no challenge and we see how well that retains players! /s

The completion numbers for Alex tend to back this up. Many of these factors impact raiding in other games too. Raiding is out of fashion, it's an old fashioned game mechanic that relies on forced grouping and forced schedules.

Raiding has had a renaissance in world of warcraft. Maybe raiding is just that bad in this game? Do you actually know how bad a4s was? The dev team could not even play test the fight in it's entirety. They literally released a raid fight that they only beat in theory. SE only beat a4s in parts and never did the entire fight as a whole, and that kind of production quality really showed. The fight was a pure nightmare. Raiding is not some archaic bygone practice like you wish it was, it simply just sucks so much in this game that all the raiders are leaving. I have been saying this non stop of these forums and I will continue to do so. The raiding carrot in this game is too small to ask people to clear nightmare fuel fights that the dev team cannot even beat.

I think you want raiding gone because it's not your cup of tea. If your solution is to make things just simple and easy, we only need to see what kind of participation PotD and diadem have to show what easy content begets us.

The community cannot simply pull itself up by the boot straps, the issues outlined above are not unique to FFXIV, and didn't really talk about community much. I do agree that the community can help, but as long as raiding requires a style of play that conflicts with lives and creates insular groups, raiding will remain a narrow sliver of the game.

Then maybe SE should treat raiders a bit better so they are not so salty towards entitled casuals? If you want this "insular" community to open up, create farm/learning parties, and fill up party finder, then there should be some incentive to do it. Right now, the raiding community is in shambles because of low incentives and large skill demands, skill demands the dev team cannot even meet. You already want the group of players, who are already disenfranchised by this game, to put even more work into their server communities? Do you think that all raiders are neck beard basement dwelling unemployed 40 year olds that can give even more of their time to this game? SE dug this hole, it's not up to raiders to fix it. Find your content scapegoat somewhere else please.

Raids need at least one more difficulty tier, as well as some light party raid content to encourage smaller groups which form moreeasily and informally to complete raid level content, The game needs to facilitate easier grouping and break down the rigid formal lines of the static groups, into a more dynamic system of grouping, not quiteparty finder, more like allowing players to participate in multiple statics. The changes to loot since coild look like they should help, but the loot/drops - especially gear - should be equally rewarding for all those in the team.

I can agree on all accounts to everything you said in that paragraph.

Beyond that, the encounters need to be more fun, and the community needs to be less uptight and more tolerant to imperfect players. Even if all these things were fixed, I think it may be time to recognize that raiding may be past it's prime in general

The community has absolutely nothing to do with retaining players. Server communities on the most populated realms are absolutely toxic in wow. It's actually the smaller less populated realms that have the community you speak of. I don't think that raiders being more tolerant of imperfect players will prop up the end game subs the way you think it will.

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What this game needs is a healthy dose of depth. Right now, most rewards in this game last less than six months. PvP gear is useless, BiS Raid gear is replaced by craftable gear, CRAFTABLE gear. People tout that one reward of raiding in this game is to get BiS for the next raid tier. But, BiS is pointless when the new crafted gear outshines it. Just look at what happened with midas. When midas savage came out, all the months of farming Gordias savage for BiS was pointless because the crafted ilvl220 gear was sooooo much better.

Every activity in this game feels meaningless because SE always nerfs EVERYTHING from glamour rarity to raids. The thavnarian set from treasure maps is another great example of why this game is a joke. I did not own a full set myself back then, but I remember stopping and admiring people who could manage to get a full set back in 3.0. Now, the entire set is worthless thanks to treasure dungeons. The drop rate for the materials should have never been buffed too. We need more individuality in this game, and giving everything to everyone just makes rewards feel less impactful. Why grind for something now when you know you can easily get it later?

Dungeons are too easy, there is no hard 4-man content anymore. We need more dungeons like the original amdapor keep, where players are challenged at a reasonable level. How will players ever step up their game if we only have toothless pinatas for dungeon bosses? Hell, half the time people don't even need to perform mechanics in dungeon fights.

You can tell that people are hungry for depth in this game by how well wiping city was received when it first came out. People loved that the new 24-man was not a loot pinata netflix set of encounters.

The biggest problem with the end game is that everything a player does doesn't feel important or impactful.

Did you grind for the super rare thavnarian set? Too bad, it was a pointless grind, it's super common now.
Did you meld that super expensive crafting gear? Too bad, now you get to do it again!
Did you grind for Gordias savage BiS? Too bad, it was completely pointless, crafted ilvl220 gear is far better.
Did you farm weeks for your thordan bird? Too bad, SE doubled the drop rate and make it purchasable.
Did you sell enough ore/herbs/crystals to buy that super rare minion? Too bad, they drop as mid tier rewards from aquapolis now.
Did you pay 15 mil for a coffin lid? Too bad, now they are worthless.


Do you see the pattern? Why work for anything in this game when you can just wait for nerfs, come back for a month or two and sweep up a large amount of easily obtainable rewards after any challenge and rarity are removed? This is why this game has a retention problem. Nothing in this game feels worth while since everything will be nerfed or invalidated.


What could solve some of these issues?

Keep some items rare, like the thavnarian set, for players to have long term goals. If there is nothing for players to save up for or work towards (glamours, pets, furniture), why bother logging on past socialization? We need long terms goals to strive for, like MPG rewards. Just look at how active the minicactpot always is. People love to have these bigger goals to slowly work on.

Raiding needs proper incentives. This 5ilvl weapon difference between 240 and 245 should be extended to all midan gear. There should always be a new savage mount, just like wow does for mythic. There should always be a new savage title, just like wow does for mythic. The BiS of one raid tier should help you in the next raid tier, just like in wow. The highest ivl in the game should only come from savage raids, just like mythic raiding in wow. The midan savage sets should look different from the normal models, just like how the models look different across normal/heroic/mythic raiding in wow.

Until the raiding carrot is bigger, people in this game won't bother with savage. SE might as well give up on the end game until they make the mountain top worth climbing. Right now, the only reason to raid in this game is for the challenge, that is it. There are no special savage cut scenes, bosses, or gear look. You can literally do midas normal and completely forget about midas savage.

4-man experts should be what the title implies, an EXPERT dungeon. Right now, there are leveling dungeons harder than current end game dungeons, it's really really sad. 4-man experts don't need to be savage difficulty, but I never saw a problem with the original pharo sirius and amdapor keep.

Also, if the in-house test team can't beat a4s in it's entirety, don't let it go live! How did that even happen? If you're not gonna have beta servers SE, at least hire some good play testers. I will never know what was going through Yoshi P.'s mind when he signed off on a4s going live. The dev team should feel absolutely embarrassed about a4s going live in the state it did.

Lastly, the dev team needs to work on having new mechanics. You can dress up a divebomb anyway you like, but it's still a divebomb. You can only dodge a circle or line aoe so many times before it is old. Dungeons become stale quickly because of this. New content is just old content wrapped up in a new skin. Even palace of the dead and treasure dungeons are just more what we already have in the game. Heck both of those contents show heavy reuse of past game assets. You can't give me gravy and tell me it's jelly 'cause gravy ain't sweet!