Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[LaylaTsarra]

People can't even read and understand simple PF comments so don't be surprised they didn't even see about cross class abilities.

This isn't a single player game. If they belong to a FC they should learn about it from friends there. Discussions in our FC talk about lots of things including cross class skills that are important.

[bass9020]

This isn't a single player game. If they belong to a FC they should learn about it from friends there. Discussions in our FC talk about lots of things including cross class skills that are important.

Exactly this 100%

[CUTS3R]

This isn't a single player game. If they belong to a FC they should learn about it from friends there. Discussions in our FC talk about lots of things including cross class skills that are important.

I guess it depends on what type of FC you are in. Mine doesn't recruit new players so, for us, cross class abilities is common sense and we don't need to discuss which ones are important cause we all know them already anyway.

[SpookyGhost]

tbh the gameplay difference between GLD and MRD from level 1 to 22 is almost non-existent.

This is basically my problem with it, actually. Having to do the same boring part of MRD leveling while not even having Overpower. zzzzzz

(though I do agree that Lancer is even worse somehow)

[Shurrikhan]

This isn't a single player game. If they belong to a FC they should learn about it from friends there. Discussions in our FC talk about lots of things including cross class skills that are important.

While certainly practical, there's a slippery slope to this, e.g. why bother trying to perfect tooltips or quest descriptions, give a methodology for playing your job well, make lore accessible, or even learn a fight ingame if your FC, a webguide, and or the game's Youtube community can explain it to you instead?

Alternatively, how hard would it be to simply list all the Additional skills you can gather as your given class or job, what they do, and who they come from, right on the Additional panel (where the class selectors thereafter just filter those down), with key skills highlighted or under a "Recommended" tab. Similarly, highlight the Additional skills tab any time leveling up gives you an additional cross-class slot.

Better yet: why force all tanks to level the same particular one for a tank-swap skill, instead of them each having their own variant meant to best fit the job, then able to swap it out (new code) or take another atop it (standard cross-class) as they see fit?

As much as I'm a fan of class gameplay and incentives to level all combat jobs, I cannot deny that the current implementation of cross-class skills and their acquisition is unimpressive at best and annoying on average (at worst, I don't even know).

[LaylaTsarra]

Better yet: why force all tanks to level the same particular one for a tank-swap skill, instead of them each having their own variant meant to best fit the job, then able to swap it out (new code) or take another atop it (standard cross-class) as they see fit?

Cross class skills serve a purpose they force the exposure of different jobs on those who might only want to try one. I don't see this as a problem in the least but then again that's me. I've leveled all my roles and have multiple accounts. Perhaps that's not for everyone, but seriously this issue of having to level another role to get a cross skill is not a bad thing. One might find they like the job they're getting that skill from and should have a broader experience than just the one role they appear to think they want to do exclusively. At the very least it gives them an appreciation for the role they wouldn't have exposure to otherwise.

I see a trend here on this forum of wanting to skip story, wanting to skip leveling, wanting to skip the bother of getting cross skills they need for their job. Sorry but the end game isn't the panacea some would like to believe. Getting there is more than half the fun.

[Shurrikhan]

Cross class skills serve a purpose they force the exposure of different jobs on those who might only want to try one. I don't see this as a problem in the least but then again that's me. I've leveled all my roles and have multiple accounts. Perhaps that's not for everyone, but seriously this issue of having to level another role to get a cross skill is not a bad thing. One might find they like the job they're getting that skill from and should have a broader experience than just the one role they appear to think they want to do exclusively. At the very least it gives them an appreciation for the role they wouldn't have exposure to otherwise.

I see a trend here on this forum of wanting to skip story, wanting to skip leveling, wanting to skip the bother of getting cross skills they need for their job. Sorry but the end game isn't the panacea some would like to believe. Getting there is more than half the fun.

Like I said, I'm all for that. I just think the current iteration of the cross-class system does a fairly poor job of it. Having a rough horizontal line-up of alternatives, where each job seems to give you an avenue into the role, was just one spitball design concept that I thought might be better. In many ways, I do honestly believe that end-game is where numerous positive elements of an MMO may necessarily (or just "if concerned with actual performance") die. I'm not asking for a removal here; I just think adjustment could benefit the feel of leveling, especially when not exclusively taking one class to 60 at a time (beyond the l15 offclass job requirements).

To take a similar example: people complained tremendously about the fatigue system, but had (1) base and/or fatigued EXP gains been boosted just a bit, and (2) fatigue was based on the relative intensity of recent exp gains in a particular class (such that gaining exp in any other class could extend the cap of the fatigued one), it could have done exactly what a lot of people were asking for: given the freedom to flesh out their self-made job through different classes, while pushing up class rank and physical level together and without holding back players who could invest more time in the game. Instead, the player polls were allegedly fixated on the removal of the system entirely, unwilling to hear any idea of adjustment.

[Duelle]

Not gonna dwell on where I stand in this debate (read: vital abilities should not be cross-class abilities), and instead want to present a suggestion.

Pool the skills by category rather than by class. What I mean is that all DoW cross-class skills would be put in one category, separate from the abilities of your current class. Keep the class affinities intact (otherwise you end up with Raging Strikes PLDs and Stoneskin BLMs), but instead delay acquisition/access to those skills by 10 levels if you do not have the related class leveled. For example (since Provoke is the reason this thread was made), a MAR leveling has two options; either level GLA to 22 to get access to Provoke right away, or wait until the MRD/WAR hits lv32 before the ability becomes available for cross-classing in the DoW ability pool.

Ideally I would like to see all jobs get their own version of vital skills, but that'd require sacrificing one or two skills per class. Not sure how people would feel about that.

[Coratanni]

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I knew it was there but dreaded doing it because it's the worst cross class to level. As a player you spend all this time leveling a tank and achieve max or close to max and suddenly... You have to go level practically the same class... At least with healers it's slightly different since your roles change and with dps rotations change.

THM Swiftcast at level 26 would like to disagree with you 100%. At least with Gladiator, it's already level 15 if you're a Warrior, and you get instant pops for your dungeons. THM is about as boring as it comes before BLM Job, it's a dps so dungeon pops require long waits, AND you need 4 additional levels, vs provoke from gladiator. Not to mention there are other gladiator abilities you can cross over that would benefit you more so than THM to a healer.

I have all tanks and healers at 60. I've been through this.

One final point. All of you live in the age of Google. Do you not realize how powerful a tool it is? If someone can't bother doing any kind of research on the classes(Wikipedia's guide on each class tells you what is cross-class able as well as what the abilities do, and at what level), then you deserve to be sub-par. The most powerful tool ever given to a Generation, and they want everything handed to them. You would have been out of luck 20 years ago when you had to buy a gamer's guide, if there was even one at all. Otherwise you actually had to figure it out yourself through trial and error, or never complete it.

[Awful]

Common sense dictates that you should have Provoke whether you're doing casual content or hardcore content to me having a taunt as a tank is beneficial in any kind of setting, as for getting this ability yeah I do agree that SE should put something in the game to get said ability like "you should get provoke upon reaching lvl 30 on said class through Paladin".

Another route is just remove the cross class abilities and put in 5 new job abilities or traits while pruning their already overwhelming hot bar issue. If Provoke is removed then each class at lvl 10 can all get a taunt therefore eliminating the lvl 22 ability and solving another issue that this game suffers from an old 1.0 idea. Don't get me wrong cross class skills are very important but there's also some like Cure, Feint, Featherfoot, etc that are just not very good which is why we even need to have 5 in the first place when we only use 3-4 at the most.

Just change provoke to taunt and have it increase your threat for the next 4 seconds while it's fixated on you and that'll solve all the problems with swapping and not having this ambiguity for cross class skills.