Are we as players afraid of a challenge?

[MilesSaintboroguh]

snip

Ok, but what purpose would it serve besides "challenging" people? Is there an incentive to fight stronger mobs there? Do they got something that is worth the risk? Or are they just glorified beef gates that add more time to your routine because you have to waste more minutes being careful every single time you want to travel or get something?

[Shurrikhan]

So you basically want MGS 5.

Or, quite simply greater mob AI and patrol routes? Doesn't have to be analog to a specific game when doing what any number of them have already, even if that's something XIV has thus far ignored completely in design.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Or, quite simply greater mob AI and patrol routes? Doesn't have to be analog to a specific game when doing what any number of them have already, even if that's something XIV has thus far ignored completely in design.

Really if they wanted to make the game world more in depth and challenging then they need to take a page out of Destiny. Ever since they introduced Oryx the Taken King they spawn Taken around the planets at random times. Granted the Taken are reskins, they also have some unique abilities that make them more of a challenge then the nontaken enemies.

Make enemy strongholds, similar to the Redbelly Hive in South Shroud, add enemies that are more powerful to the world at random times, make B rank hunts predators again while giving the A ranks the ability to hunt players and not just stand there, introduce fates that actually impact the section of the world you're in, or even make mobs get buffs during night time and use the Nightmare skins from PotD and let them lose with erratic spawns and AI combat paths.

We don't need to be sneaking in this game, that was implemented horribly on NIN, or any puzzles in the open world. The land of Eorzea should be a savage place, sneaking and solving puzzles is actually very opposite of what the player I quoted was looking for.

[Welsper59]

Ok, but what purpose would it serve besides "challenging" people? Is there an incentive to fight stronger mobs there? Do they got something that is worth the risk? Or are they just glorified beef gates that add more time to your routine because you have to waste more minutes being careful every single time you want to travel or get something?

Unnecessary dangerous mobs being around isn't always a bad thing. Their presence serves a similar purpose to the mobs you just currently ignore and have not once fought. Not everything needs to be justified by having something of worth that mandates someone killing them. Their presence can simply be for the sake of world building, at minimum. This game doesn't exactly fit the bill though on creating a zone that has nothing but mobs designed to be fought with a party just to get to a basic location like a town, though.

Sections of a map can work, like how some ARR zones had a varying level of mobs based on location, but our zones are really small to cater to that appropriately. They could probably also create a zone for it... but we kinda already have such a (poorly introduced) function like it, and it's called Diadem. After noticing how horrible people were here about their avoiding mobs when trying to get those currents to fly in the zone, I'd say we kinda are in need of something to boost some self awareness of lack of skill. It's like watching someone on a bicycle try to go through a 50ft wide opening only to crash into the wall next to it. What better way than to just outright kill them for their mistakes in the game? It's good to learn a simple degree of motor skills and have a bit of self awareness. Then again, that could also be a sign that many players are just that inept at being aware of their surroundings. RL itself kinda hints at that with all the accidents that occur.

Keep in mind that the need to be careful to avoid agg was simply to avoid battle, assuming people are relating it to XI's aggro system. You could have always just fought your way through, assuming your party was of sufficient level. Sometimes, that worked out well, depending how far the destination was.

[WinterLuna]

Ok, but what purpose would it serve besides "challenging" people? Is there an incentive to fight stronger mobs there? Do they got something that is worth the risk? Or are they just glorified beef gates that add more time to your routine because you have to waste more minutes being careful every single time you want to travel or get something?

The thread was about challenge, not incentive, and the suggestion was based on that.

The suggestion was really vague, of course incentive could be added. The high level mobs could drop different versions of timeworn maps, decent amounts of gil or whatever else people would like.

Or, they could drop nothing, and serve to make the world more interesting and dangerous, instead of the entire open world being a safe zone unless you're not max level or AFK.

They don't have to be everywhere, either.

[Jynx]

Ok, but what purpose would it serve besides "challenging" people? Is there an incentive to fight stronger mobs there? Do they got something that is worth the risk? Or are they just glorified beef gates that add more time to your routine because you have to waste more minutes being careful every single time you want to travel or get something?

I wouldn't think to deny people the comforts of "Normal" travel as these areas would only need to be traversed once to get to your next town and then any further incursions would be for specific reasons (Daily quests, key items, gathering.) There are plenty of ways to ensure that getting through these areas is well worth the risk, hell there were certain weekly quests in XI that basically gave exp scrolls as a reward of traversing old deadly areas after you had finished the questline for them.



These quests were hidden of course in XI but XIV could have neon signs pointing them out.

The point is that the monsters aren't just "beefgates" as the traversal of the area should always be a important part of why you are there, otherwise you might as well call the fights in the game all beefgates blocking you from your progression... The time you spend in these areas should be rewarding for your character no doubt.

Hard to obtain crafting materials, gathering points, quest rewards or even NPC's that need to be saved if certain world events are failed.

Some people might get sour if I suggest it but imagine if there was a NPC who made it so you didn't have to pay to warp to the next city after you unlocked it (Let's say warping in this area is costly without this NPC) if certain world events are failed this NPC would vanish for a set amount of time or require players to traverse the world to pick him up (With a nice reward of course). This way players are generally invested in the zone and it's required to access all the comforts of the zone.

This could work with other things such as vendors.

Inconveniencing players doesn't always have to be a bad thing you know.

[Shurrikhan]

We don't need to be sneaking in this game, that was implemented horribly on NIN, or any puzzles in the open world. The land of Eorzea should be a savage place, sneaking and solving puzzles is actually very opposite of what the player I quoted was looking for.

A open world zelda esque sneaking puzzle could be interesting and give an enemy stronghold life. Set enemy spawns along a predetermined path, able to avoid detection simply through patience and timing. Being detected resetting your progress completely/partially probably via death. For parties just pushing through the objective could be to zerg certain enemies before they can raise the alarm and flood the area with reinforcements.

Well now I'm confused. Especially since all I said was that what that your analog...

So you basically want MGS 5.

...wasn't the end all be all of what was mentioned. (And to me seemed dismissive. I realize now that wasn't the case.)

I never said there that the game needed stealth. (Granted, I would like some.)

Really if they wanted to make the game world more in depth and challenging then they need to take a page out of Destiny. Ever since they introduced Oryx the Taken King they spawn Taken around the planets at random times. Granted the Taken are reskins, they also have some unique abilities that make them more of a challenge then the nontaken enemies.

Make enemy strongholds, similar to the Redbelly Hive in South Shroud, add enemies that are more powerful to the world at random times, make B rank hunts predators again while giving the A ranks the ability to hunt players and not just stand there, introduce fates that actually impact the section of the world you're in, or even make mobs get buffs during night time and use the Nightmare skins from PotD and let them lose with erratic spawns and AI combat paths.

While from what I've seen of Destiny (PC only player), the concepts look like a tremendous conceptual guide for a lot of MMO design... though its forums and E3 comments do point at that common state of "could have been so much more". That said, I'm not seeing any of what's made it look attractive to me in high level aggressive mobs spawning randomly throughout the world or around beastmen and bandit camps. That simply sounds like any of the invasion events. Which... was a cluster****. Fun sometimes, but decimating open world gameplay for anyone not in a group of ten or more and just generally killing leveling and camp usage for most players in any zone in which they were involved.

Overwhelming power or savagery isn't necessarily fun. It's a minimum gear and/or player count, or an outright lockout. At least until you properly attach scaling and mechanics to actually make it interesting. Which is why I'd be more excited if, say, SE said they're revamping stealth and its usage than if they simply said "we're dropping in a lot of really strong mobs who kill on sight".

[Seoulstar]

I personally would like if something was challenging in the open world. To be honest, the dungeons are hardly what I'd call "challenging". I would say give people the option to do it though. So everyone will be happy. Then again..knowing these forums. Someone would be bound to complain.

[FinaSel]

Difficult getting from one town to the next, where any monsters could easily kill you, and required very careful analysis of mobs' movement...

Sounds a lot like the trek to Jeuno in FFXI. Yeah, I'll never forget the first time going there.
I loved that challenge and I agree this game lacks challenge in many areas.

BUT, I think that is why it is so successful. It has so many players, and the casualness of it is what keeps many players playing.
Most of the game is easy and simple and people can enjoy it.
There is some content aimed at people who want a challenge too.

If they were to increase the difficulty of this game to make everything challenging for everyone, a lot of people would complain / quit.

I personally loved the challenges that FFXI had, but I think it would be very efficient to carry it over to this game. Unfortunately.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

While potentially fun at first, the novelty would quickly wear off. One aspect I hated in FFXI is being forced to group because random trash mobs would kill me in the blink of an eye. That only serves to gate players who otherwise prefer doing stuff on their own. I am fine with a world boss being made challenging, or perhaps some elite mobs (hunts come to mind), but getting destroyed by a toad isn't fun.