Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Istaru]

I will agree that an simple vertical progression system, especially during catch up time is great for new players. I will also state that it is not so good for people who want more for their efforts.

Since this is a "I just went there" thread...

The system sucks for people who want to have something to show for playing more than a few hours a day a few days a week. They want to be able to have something that rewards them for actually playing the combat part of the game instead of playing Barbie with their avatars or treating the game like a pretty chat room.

Yes, I just went there.

[Velhart]

I did not mean only horizontal. Keep the vertical progression but add some horizontal to that.
Maybe gear with a special stat. Firestarter proc rate +3%, -10 INT for example. (just an example! i don't know if that would work lol)
Put that behind a "long" grind or a quest chain or a NM (/shrug) or whatever. Everything but tomestones! D:

We kind of already have it with multiple gear sets and odd number patches offering more ways to obtain said gear. I think what you are asking is for something outside of raid and tomestone gear, which could work if the right content was made for a third set. It could be overwhelming is the concerning issue. I can see SE's solution is offering more variety in content to obtain the tomestone gear, which is a good thing. I am open to suggestion however on the fence on what is a better approach, wouldn't mind hearing more of what people think about that. Either way is fine if done right. You just have things like 24-man raid to take into consideration.

snip

FFXI is definitely a product of it's time. It was built in the mind set it would be taking in a niche audience and built it upon that, along with prolonging features since constantly adding content on a PS2 HDD would fill it up quick. FFXI was largely experimental also, taking influence from other MMO's like Everquest. The game was most definitely a success and did work for that niche audience during that time. It was a game however during it's prime, was very hard on newer players and catered heavily towards end game. I heard multiple stories of people trying to get in and enjoy it, but the requirements for the smallest things were too great to enjoy leisurely. End game I can't speak on behalf of every LS and server, but a lot of times, serious end game HNMLS's did not want you unless you at least had decent items on you which were a feat itself to get like SAM were required to have Haubergeon+1, a good STR piece, O.Kote, Hagun. Which required having a lot of gil, or spending time with lower end LS's and BCNM/ENM's to get them. Mages needing to have every staff at +1.

At a midcore/hardcore level I suppose it works, but it easily kills off the casual scene, which SE clearly wants in FFXIV. We can argue that FFXIV works too largely in the casual's favor, but I don't think such heavy methods that FFXI did are the answer. It would be the same problem in reverse. Even the current FFXI realizes it needed to ease up on some aspects of the game. Which actually in my opinion the game is much better for it, especially for newer players wanting to try it out.

[Zafrei]

The system sucks for people who want to have something to show for playing more than a few hours a day a few days a week. They want to be able to have something that rewards them for actually playing the combat part of the game instead of playing Barbie with their avatars or treating the game like a pretty chat room.

Yes, I just went there.

Isn't there already a lot that caters to this though? I mean there's raid mount drops, raid weapons, relic weapons if you're after a real relic, and then of course whichever is the latest tier of gear on the table too. Seems this kind of system is exactly what this game currently leans towards? And because they keep releasing a new end game weapon/armour, that treadmill just keeps running right?

[Lambadelta]

They want to be able to have something that rewards them for actually playing the combat part of the game instead of playing Barbie with their avatars or treating the game like a pretty chat room..

Isn't that what the titles from SCOB, Mount from A4S, and Minion from A8S are meant to do.

[odintius]

I will agree that an simple vertical progression system, especially during catch up time is great for new players. I will also state that it is not so good for people who want more for their efforts.

Since this is a "I just went there" thread...

The system sucks for people who want to have something to show for playing more than a few hours a day a few days a week. They want to be able to have something that rewards them for actually playing the combat part of the game instead of playing Barbie with their avatars or treating the game like a pretty chat room.

Yes, I just went there.

Well people do say the true end game is glamour kinda sad has some truth behind those words >.> next will be mogstation cash shop end game well if you a mount/minion/glamour collector.

[Kosmos992k]

Altering the msq wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. The problem with the msq is there's so much filler junk in it that a lot of the main plot points are completely lost.

The slayer of mighty primals as you said yet after defeating a mighty primal you're then resorted to whacking a few bugs for some dumb npc for lord only knows what reason. Hardly a fitting task for the slayer of mighty primals.

Theres to many filler quests that end up burying the the more key plot points.

Altering the MSQ (for others) is very much a bad thing since it changes a fundamental aspect of the game for your poersonal wishes in a way that changes the main story setting for other players. If that is what you are really seggesting, then it's a very selfish and short sighted wish. FFXIV is a story driven game, the kinds of changing open world that you appear to want is not really compatible with that kind of game.

As for your point about the WoL, I agree, but that does not require that the open world be altered for others to suit higher level players. When those kinds of wishes are expressed despite the impact they would have on other, I can see why newer players or lower level players might start to conclude that high level players are a bit elitist since they want changes to the game to suit them, regardless of the consequences on others. It's perfectly possible within the realm of FFXIV and the types of content that is has to offer WoL standard quests without modifying the open world to suit.

You really need to learn.

I didn`t ask for the game to become GW2, just to be more like it. A game can use advances, techniques and good ideas from others while retaining their own form. Thats why genres exist and not a single game is absolutely independent of the influence of others. FFXIV has taken way too much from the last decade of this industry which standars have been set mostly by WoW. 3 years into the game, its time to look for new influences, specifically, in games that didn`t follow the WoW Formula.

And considering there is not a single MMORPG which takes the whole horizontal progression to an extreme as much as GW2, and that being the biggest need this game has, i see nowhere else where to take a few ideas from.

It seems like the person requiring to learn something is you. You are asking for this game to change to be like some other game. I simply said let GW2 be GW2 and FFXIV be FFXIV, if you want to play a game like GW2, play GW2, when you want to polay FFXIV, then play it. There is no need to blend the two, they offer something distinct and different.

Lastly, I wish that you, like so many people, would take off the WoW glasses that you have on. WoW really did not invent many if any of the concepts it uses whether they be game systems, currencies & tokens, lockouts, or story cues. As has been pointed out many times all MMORPGs borrow from the games we used to play with character sheets and dice, and allof the ones in fantasy settings draw heavily on literary sources such as Lord of the Rings. So please, least stop pretending that this game or any other borrows from WoW... as if WoW was the originator of all things MMORPG.

[Istaru]

Isn't there already a lot that caters to this though? I mean there's raid mount drops, raid weapons, relic weapons if you're after a real relic, and then of course whichever is the latest tier of gear on the table too. Seems this kind of system is exactly what this game currently leans towards? And because they keep releasing a new end game weapon/armour, that treadmill just keeps running right?

Raid mounts - Aren't these just another type of glamour in the end? They do not add anything lasting to your character except something pretty to ride on.

Raid weapons - Again, worth getting for one patch cycle then they become glamour.

Relic Weapons - Mostly glamour. They are not BiS more than they are BiS.

Last gear - Weekly lockout. After about 8 hours of content everyone is at the same power level whether they play 8 hours a week or 8 hours per day.

You are absolutely correct about the treadmill runs into infinity.

Isn't that what the titles from SCOB, Mount from A4S, and Minion from A8S are meant to do.

Aren't they glamour items at the end of the day? They are things to dress up your character and not much else.

Well people do say the true end game is glamour kinda sad has some truth behind those words >.> next will be mogstation cash shop end game well if you a mount/minion/glamour collector.

I agree that glamour is the endgame of FFXIV, I also agree it's kinda sad.

[Lambadelta]

I agree that glamour is the endgame of FFXIV, I also agree it's kinda sad.

You wanted something to show you did high levels of combat. There you are special glamour to show that off.

What do u want them to do? throw you a parade.

[Kosmos992k]

Raid mounts - Aren't these just another type of glamour in the end? They do not add anything lasting to your character except something pretty to ride on.

What would tyou have the mounts do, have some super special attack mode? Of course a mount is a mount, but exclusive mounts are exclusive, hence the reason for getting tthem.

Raid weapons - Again, worth getting for one patch cycle then they become glamour.

Um, isn't it more like two patch cycles, the weapons you get in 3.2 are still as good or better than the weapons you can get in 3.3, 3.35 are they not?

Relic Weapons - Mostly glamour. They are not BiS more than they are BiS.

From your perspective perhaps. relics were added not for raiders and end-gamers, but for players who will grind their way through things over a long time. They mmayy not be BiS for you, but they're going to be the best many players can expect for a while.

Last gear - Weekly lockout. After about 8 hours of content everyone is at the same power level whether they play 8 hours a week or 8 hours per day.

Everyone at end-game perhaps, which is what happens when there is a decent sizded end-game community. End-game is not the only game or content or player-base.

Aren't they glamour items at the end of the day? They are things to dress up your character and not much else.

That can be said of anything older than a couple of patches, and that is true in almost every game around. Except that in FFXIV we get content patches roughly every 3 months, instead of every 6-12 months or longer like most other games have to settle for.

[drivendawn]

Raid mounts - Aren't these just another type of glamour in the end? They do not add anything lasting to your character except something pretty to ride on.

Raid weapons - Again, worth getting for one patch cycle then they become glamour.

Relic Weapons - Mostly glamour. They are not BiS more than they are BiS.

Last gear - Weekly lockout. After about 8 hours of content everyone is at the same power level whether they play 8 hours a week or 8 hours per day.

You are absolutely correct about the treadmill runs into infinity.




Aren't they glamour items at the end of the day? They are things to dress up your character and not much else.





I agree that glamour is the endgame of FFXIV, I also agree it's kinda sad.

So your answer to the treadmill is keeping the same stuff for years no thanks.