DPSing as a healer

[_slowpoke_]

When you have people harassing you just because you don't want to DPS when your role is a healer and not a dps isn't what I'd call fun.

It's not harassment by itself to correctly point out that someone is standing around and doing nothing of value instead of being in Cleric DPSing like they are supposed to. Sure, you can be a dick about it, but if you sign up for DF, you sign up to do the best you can for getting your party through the dungeon. That includes doing damage as a healer, whether you want to or not. If you don't want to do that - or don't "enjoy it" - don't use DF. Or don't play a cooperative multiplayer game in the first place.

[Valmaxian]

Just to be Devil's advocate here, its not always fair to assume that if a healer is not casting, they aren't doing anything. In situations where I am not 100% confident in my tank/DPS I might be watching those health bars like a HAWK (we've all had those moments when the tank takes fluctuating, nerve-wracking damage). I also add DPS whenever possible. I'd like to think that everyone wants to do the best job they can, however I don't think anyone appreciates being told what to do or what's "wrong" with them, whether in a game or in real life. I'm sure we all do things that would annoy someone, and its not healthy to constantly dwell on what might irritate the next person.

If you are the type of player who expects healers to DPS, do that. Setting the example can be positive and helpful, and if you're the one doing it, the job is being done. If its a raid/roulette situation, join or form a static with people you trust. There are no reasons to not have the experience you want.

[Tsumes]

don't play a cooperative multiplayer game in the first place.

So someone should quit playing entirely simply because you feel that a healer who doesn't DPS is "doing nothing of value". I guess healing isn't valuable to you. Man, that defense stat must be maxed out huh? Nice.

Tanks have Healing skills, so does SMN and many other classes. Yet no one expects them to help with healing. DPS's have it easy. They can button mash with 1 hand, and set up macros to literally do their entire job FOR them while not even looking at the screen. But if a healer stands still for half a second, then suddenly they're being useless. People will say anything to make themselves feel bigger then the next guy. It's a rampant issue in this community. Healers have gotten the piss end of the stick since the dawn of the first MMO. Times never change lol.

snip

Very well said. Can't see how anyone can argue with that sentiment. There are absolutely zero reasons you can't have the experience you truly want.

[Fernosaur]

DPS's have it easy. They can button mash with 1 hand, and set up macros to literally do their entire job FOR them while not even looking at the screen. But if a healer stands still for half a second, then suddenly they're being useless. People will say anything to make themselves feel bigger then the next guy. It's a rampant issue in this community. Healers have gotten the piss end of the stick since the dawn of the first MMO. Times never change lol.

I'm sorry what? Have you played any DPS class in this game? I'd say that DPS are the ones that require the most technical skill ever since 3.0 arrived, and if you really just button mash with one hand and use macros, believe me, the tank and healer are gonna notice because things are going to be dying VERY slowly. I'm not one to point out things people in DF are doing wrong because it's not really my problem, and I probably won't see them again ever, but awful players come in all classes. Tanks that can't hold hate or don't use CDs or self-healing are annoying, DPS who deal low damage and get hit by everything are annoying, and healers who just stand there doing nothing through the entirety of a run are also very annoying.

Saying healers are the only role that get this kind of treatment is silly and short sighted. Saying DPS "have it easy" when you're advocating for a style of play that literally has you standing there doing nothing, while everyone else is CONSTANTLY contributing something to the party with every GCD available, well... that leaves me speechless. And no, using Cure/Physick/Benefic over and over with every GCD isn't contributing anything.

I don't hold it against healers who don't want to DPS because they don't feel comfortable or safe doing it. That's perfectly fine. But if someone could do something and instead does not because they don't want to? That's being lazy and selfish.

[Gemina]

I'm sorry what? Have you played any DPS class in this game? I'd say that DPS are the ones that require the most technical skill ever since 3.0 arrived, and if you really just button mash with one hand and use macros, believe me, the tank and healer are gonna notice because things are going to be dying VERY slowly. I'm not one to point out things people in DF are doing wrong because it's not really my problem, and I probably won't see them again ever, but awful players come in all classes. Tanks that can't hold hate or don't use CDs or self-healing are annoying, DPS who deal low damage and get hit by everything are annoying, and healers who just stand there doing nothing through the entirety of a run are also very annoying.

Saying healers are the only role that get this kind of treatment is silly and short sighted. Saying DPS "have it easy" when you're advocating for a style of play that literally has you standing there doing nothing, while everyone else is CONSTANTLY contributing something to the party with every GCD available, well... that leaves me speechless. And no, using Cure/Physick/Benefic over and over with every GCD isn't contributing anything.

I don't hold it against healers who don't want to DPS because they don't feel comfortable or safe doing it. That's perfectly fine. But if someone could do something and instead does not because they don't want to? That's being lazy and selfish.

I've spent as much time as my SMN as I have my SCH, and while there is definitely a lot more to the DPS role than button smashing and macros, playing healer has you focus on everything they do PLUS the health status of the group. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've needed to DPS an add that needs to go down ASAP while they're still blasting away at the main target. I think the comments from this poster are derived from similar experiences. But let's not compare DPS flack to healer flack, because there is none. The only time they get hate is when their DPS sucks, and rightfully so because that is why they are there. In fact, I kind of feel bad for DPS because it never surprises anyone to come across a derpy, AoE starved, undergeared death muncher.

Healers and tanks are the ones that catch flack for not doing something that isn't required of them. I mean the same people ripping tanks apart for not using cooldowns are the same people who say healing in this game is ridiculously easy. Doesn't something about that seem broken to you? But the SMN who doesn't cast raise to help the healers out? A party specific ability, btw? I hear crickets.

So why wouldn't the poster you quoted or any other healer for that matter feel the way they do? Thank goodness they didn't give us any kind of tanking ability or we would be expected to do that sh*t too. You know, because it's part of the "tool kit". The current meta is feeding those with these expectations with a silver spoon, and healers - good healers, are becoming more and more bitter as a result.

As a healer, perhaps I should expect other players to bring potions and medicines to cure and cleanse themselves, because you know? It's well within their capability to do so?

[Fernosaur]

Healers and tanks are the ones that catch flack for not doing something that isn't required of them. I mean the same people ripping tanks apart for not using cooldowns are the same people who say healing in this game is ridiculously easy. Doesn't something about that seem broken to you? But the SMN who doesn't cast raise to help the healers out? A party specific ability, btw? I hear crickets.

So why wouldn't the poster you quoted or any other healer for that matter feel the way they do? Thank goodness they didn't give us any kind of tanking ability or we would be expected to do that sh*t too. You know, because it's part of the "tool kit". The current meta is feeding those with these expectations with a silver spoon, and healers - good healers, are becoming more and more bitter as a result.

As a healer, perhaps I should expect other players to bring potions and medicines to cure and cleanse themselves, because you know? It's well within their capability to do so?

Erm I feel like you're taking my post slightly out of context, as the poster I quoted seemed to be very vitriolic about their perspective of DPS and Tanks and the responsibilities they carry. As a little pre-post addendum to that last part, however, I will say that I would actually love it if people brought potions and medicines to cure and cleanse themselves, because that'd be an extra GCD I could use on Broil, but that's entirely besides the point.

TL;DR incoming:

Tbh healers and tanks get flack in every game no matter what the meta for that game looks like. That simply comes with the job, and that's also why there is always a shortage of tanks and healers in most games. I mean, yeah, this game has an imbalance on the number of classes available for these roles vs DPS classes, but that's besides the point.

I just want to make something clear. I am definitely against harassing people, insuting them or demanding things from them that they don't want to do if it's not absolutely necessary. I will never give shit to a healer for not DPSing in Duty Finder, nor will I give shit to a tank for not using CDs, even struggling to keep hate. If anything, if I notice they're struggling with the basics of their job I'll ask if they want advice and offer it to the best of my ability. For DPS, I only really play SMN, so there's not much I can offer as advice to improve their damage if it's too low. I have noticed that a lot of people that post in this thread are against the style of play perpetuated by the current healer meta because they have been on the receiving end of harassment from other players, and that is really terrible, and on behalf of the healer population that actually supports healer DPS meta, I apologize for the shit you've been put through. I know I have said people that willingly avoid DPSing as healers are lazy and selfish, but I never intended to personally attack anyone with that opinion. I will elaborate on this point later, though.

However, and this goes to you folks who seem to be really put down by the healer DPS meta: Don't use the forums as an absolute representation of the community in a social sense, and don't let the meta discussed in this place kill your fun in playing a healing class. BUT, also try to think about the multiple opinions given out here, and the arguments offered. Quoting the mother crystal, I will say: "Hear. Feel. Think."

I know what this feels like because it was awful being a Paladin main back in 3.0 and 3.1 and coming to the forums to read everyone saying how shitty and worthless the class I loved so much was, simply because it couldn't keep up with the other Tanks' DPS. I've always liked playing turtly, super tanky classes in every game, and it was kinda sad realizing that my preferred style of play was very sub-optimal in FFXIV. If I learned one thing from that whole thing, though, is that the forums are here for discussion, and no matter what side you stand on, there is always something to be learned or at least pondered about stemming from these discussions, regardless of how heated, condescending and vitriolic they get.

In the end, I learned to embrace the DPS aspect of tanking, because it is an interesting part of the game that brings more to the amount of things you can master and learn. And in the end, using proper turtling skills to help deal more damage ends up being much more satisfying for me because it means I have learned to be good at this game's particular style of tanking. I had a similar learning curve with healing as well, and now I have learned to find satisfaction in the massive damage I can put out while also keeping the party alive, preventing wipes in bad pugs, and even carrying bad players.

That said, I reinforce my opinion, where I most definitely NOT agree with healers who refuse to DPS. Simply because it's like, for a lack of a better comparison coming to my mind atm, someone refusing to use drifting boosts in Mario Kart. It takes some (pretty minimal) skill, but if you have that skill, why impose an unneeded handicap on yourself? This is the way the game plays, and that's fine. If the game had stupidly high eHP checks on casual content, like Ragnarok Online did, for example, then anyone willing to play a healing class would have to be in for that particular style of play, because that would be optimal for that game.

You're being given this big toy box, and instead of enjoying it for what it is and having some fun, you're wishing it was a different game, and complaining that the red bricks aren't blue because you like that color better. And this isn't about conforming to low standards either, because the current healer meta in FFXIV isn't objectively bad or poorly made. It is what it is, and whether you like it or not is entirely dependent on opinions. I'm afraid that you either have to let it grow on you, or just discard it entirely.

In the end, no one can really force you to play in X way if you don't want to, and if your final word is "I don't wanna DPS because I don't have fun that way," or "because I'm not really interested in pushing my skill in this game," well, so be it! But as someone said earlier, you have to own up to the social and technical consequences of knowingly taking this choice. I, for one, kinda roll my eyes a little bit when I read Scholars talking about minute DPS gains from sub-stats or super optimal CD usage, but hey, that's how they roll, and that is a limit that I'm not yet willing to push myself into. If someone's gives me shit about not maximizing my DPS as Scholar, well, I'll take it, but unless I ever feel like doing that, I won't really go there unless my static group asks or demands it.

Edit: One final clarification. Gemina, I know I quoted your post particularly, but I'm not specifically directing any of this at you. I'm mostly trying to speak to the posters that are hating on the healer DPS meta, and also to those who have posted saying they're turned off by the same thing. Peace!

[FunkyBunch]

SNIP

This was perfect.
The perfect attitude and the perfect explanation.

the TL;DR; version:
THIS game's Healing Roles are setup to be Heal+DPS as much as you can (as can be seen in the Hall of the Novice)
YOUR idea of Healing MAY NOT match the DESIGN of FFXIV
LEARN to play THIS GAME (as it's not JUST YOUR GAME, it's EVERYONE's GAME) the way it was DESIGNED
There's a REASON we are posting here, whether you like it or not.
LEARNING to play the game to the current meta makes you BETTER.

Lastly, The opinions we state on the forums about healers in general do not necessarily represent how we are in game or to individual healers here.

[Tint]

So someone should quit playing entirely simply because you feel that a healer who doesn't DPS is "doing nothing of value". I guess healing isn't valuable to you.

i noticed this too. at the beginning of 2.0 people where thankfull for your healing. it changed over the time and one year later it was all about dps. in my group back then the healer must not make mechanics because he wasn't able to heal in that time. today the healer has to do them because it's not that a huge dps-loss.

the whole healing-meta is just broken and somehow the community is defendig it.

[Fernosaur]

i noticed this too. at the beginning of 2.0 people where thankfull for your healing. it changed over the time and one year later it was all about dps. in my group back then the healer must not make mechanics because he wasn't able to heal in that time. today the healer has to do them because it's not that a huge dps-loss.

the whole healing-meta is just broken and somehow the community is defendig it.

It's not that the healing meta is broken, though. This is literally how the game is designed. If healers weren't meant to provide DPS at all, they wouldn't have offensive spells, access to Cleric Stance, and everything would hit so hard that a tank would need heavy healing 100% of the time. This also means that a DPS or healer getting hit by a single mob would be one or two shotted by auto-attacks.

This kind of design simply doesn't fit the model of this game, and frankly, I'm thankful for that, because spamming Cure over and over and throwing a Cure II every now and then sounds much more boring than putting up regens, setting up your DPS spells and holding out for the right moment to turn Cleric Stance off to top the tank again and refresh your regens. It gives healers much more depth than simply being healbots and playing wack-a-mole with HP bars.

[Tsumes]

If healers weren't meant to provide DPS at all, they wouldn't have offensive spells

They also wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING outside of dungeons. How "open" minded of you.
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Let me get this straight. If the group isn't hitting DPS checks. If's the healer's fault. If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If the party takes 30 seconds too long to complete. Again, it's the healer's fault. If the tank can't hold aggro. Once again, it has to be the healers fault. I'm 100% certain you people are 1000% full of yourselves. Please go have a seat. You're not doing anyone any good spreading your arbitrary hate for healers all over the place. If you're THAT concerned with Top dogging your way through dungeons. Take your own advice, stick to pre-mades composed of 7 DPS and a SMN. Sounds like your perfect group.

The way I see if, if healers were truly meant to "DPS". They'd have more then 3 damage skills, and cleric stance would not exist. Cross skills do not count. AST has a total of 4 damage skills, only 2 of which are worth half a pile of crap.