Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Kosmos992k]

Back when side quests gave important rewards sure they did.

Higher level side quests could be made more attractive by making sidequests a source for glamor items or materials used to make them.

[Leigaon]

Never a bad thing to be open-minded People are so unwilling to admit that XIV could be improved if they borrowed an idea or two from XI. Of course XI wasn't perfect, no one is claiming that, but this is why you don't try to copy the bad bits...

That is true, FFXIV, FFXI and all the others out there do something better than the other. Reading over my post again, I didn't mean to sound so much against things being in XIV from XI. Just that when someone says "Add subjobs!" without acknowledging the downsides to them, I believe someone should go "Yeah the idea is nice, just..remember it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows..unless you were on the summoner unlock quest." That does mean though that what is taken from XI could be adjusted to fit the lifestyle of XIV. Just, because it is a good idea in XI doesn't mean it would be great in XIV. Though on the flip side, it could be absolutely wonderful in XIV and maybe even better!

For example, sub-jobs could have been replaced with cross class skills. Different additions when used by different jobs. Or the constant gear blinking..say the ability / gear slots someone mentioned from IX. So instead of switching out a ton for healing potency, have it be something to spirit bond and add to your current gear set..mind you these are not great ideas. There will be balance. Though i'm saying with the great ideas comes problems, and we as a player should learn to acknowledge that and sometimes go "It's worth the beatings" or not.

Shout half a day to get a group to kill Hektaeye for ohat? Yeah i'm all game! \o/

You're right, these do not help. I do believe we have something already at this level. For example, myself, I have not done Ravanna EX. Party finder for it has been just the same as yelling all day to get a group for Carby mitts in XI. A few things from the XI days are already here, just in a different form. Both good and bad, and some have been greatly improved on. I'm rather happy with the XIV game, though I will agree there's room for improvements.

I believe XI did a wonderful job bringing people together, here, I know these guys are all awesome but there's no need to gather. I had a lot more connections with people in DynaAngels and EventHorizion than I do with any XIV FC's, as great of people as they are. We were never forced to venture into places together. There wasn't ever "Lei, switch to BRD and come to sea!" help someone out all night, gather points so I can use it later for something I want. Yet the XIV people, for the most part, are very cheerful and happy, then the ones who take it too seriously and hate the game but can't quit...well that's another story.

[Duelle]

I was actually responding to all this until I realized you seem to absolutely hate FFXI, period. You focused solely on the bad of XI, without any merit of what made the game fun.

I've yet to find what people thought of as fun in FFXI. The combat was generally a mess (between TP dynamics to the bastardization of several of the in-game systems by the players). Class balance was a mess (god-tier jobs, junk jobs, exacerbated by overt focus on niche design). World presentation was a mess (the world being barren of civilization outside of the three main cities, though this I chalk up to game engine limitations and the PS2). Nevermind the plethora of unintended things done in-game that diminished my enjoyment (I can attest to this as someone who hates gear-swaps, staff-wielding PLDs and refresh botting).

Then at the end try to make XIV sound like some entirely new thing with its design. XIV is just as much of a grind-fest as XI, if not more in some cases.

The difference is that XIV at least lets you see some sort of progression. Which is nothing like, say, camping a named monster for a drop you "needed" to get into exp parties or doing Dynamis for the billionth time for your Duelist's Chapeau.

I'm sorry you punished yourself for 11 years in FFXI, but that was a personal option; and it does not make FFXI a horrible game by any standard. Otherwise it would have long shutdown, no maintenance mode (with constant updates), or no hint at yet even another expansion as per stated from a recent interview (however slight it may be), -or- the fact they are working on a FFXI mobile version that currently has plans up to CoP.

Here you're ignoring the fact that people who spend a lot of time on something are very reluctant to entirely drop it, regardless of how shitty the experience is. Aside from that some will stay because they have friends in-game.

Now am I saying FFXI was the best game for everyone on earth? Nope, but its concepts are certainly not the disaster you're blowing it up to be. Bad choices by devs sure (not making NIN Utsu like Rogue's Shade shift years ago etc), but still solid core ideas.

I'll call this into question. To name some examples, we've had people asking for extra stats on gear, often citing FFXI's stats and not realizing the balance issues those would cause progression-wise and gear design-wise (before even getting into how such stats would affect actual gameplay). We've had people asking for Dynamis and Nyzul Isle clones, gotten them and had one (Diadem) shit on for not being a source of raid gear and the other (PotD) labeled as repetitive (despite following almost the exact same structure as Nyzul Isle sans the floors with bullshit lamp placements).

What else is there? Pankration? A horribly-designed pet battle system that with some major tweaks could have been decent but was abandoned.

Moblin Maze Mongers? A decent system that was abandoned too early and then was implemented a second time (see: Meeble Burrows) because reasons.

Campaign? We already have that via FATEs, and the only difference between the two is that FATE mobs don't one-shot you the way Campaign mobs could.

Besieged? An unsustainable model, since that (along with the original implementation of colonization) assumes a continuously high in-game population.

Assault? We have this already in the form of dungeons, just without the classisms.

This all said, I'm willing to discuss things we could actually learn and improve from XI that don't mess with progression, but such examples are few and far in between.

PS: Before anyone mentions Delve and the several hundred other events with a single word for a name, those are all pretty much the same thing, just with different names and currencies. Collect gimmick (either items or currency) => pop and kill mob => get loot or get nothing depending on RNG => repeat.

[Velhart]

Blah blah most of FFXI is archaic blah blah unbalanced mess since day 1 that still continues today blah blah.... I am a broken record.

Could of sworn like a week or two ago we had a big debate about this. And then we had one a few weeks before that, and then a few weeks before that. Pretty much every other week since beta got released.

You know, since FFXI dropped the PS2/360 version(finally!), we should request they do a touch up to the game's graphics along with the UI that is currently being worked on.

I should get back on FFXI and finish those story quests.

[Sandpark]

I've yet to find what people thought of as fun in FFXI. The combat was generally a mess (between TP dynamics to the bastardization of several of the in-game systems by the players). Class balance was a mess (god-tier jobs, junk jobs, exacerbated by overt focus on niche design). World presentation was a mess (the world being barren of civilization outside of the three main cities, though this I chalk up to game engine limitations and the PS2). Nevermind the plethora of unintended things done in-game that diminished my enjoyment (I can attest to this as someone who hates gear-swaps, staff-wielding PLDs and refresh botting).

Go to youtube and watch most player reviews. The combat is the last thing people sing cheers about in XIV. Where as most player who did play XI usually recite how much they enjoyed the combat system. Class balance was not as tuned as it is here, but you also have more ways to play each job than you do here. The world being barren I would also chalk up to ps2 limitations but it wasn't that barren. You could go into areas connected to others and stumble upon a tribe or something else of interest.

The difference is that XIV at least lets you see some sort of progression. Which is nothing like, say, camping a named monster for a drop you "needed" to get into exp parties or doing Dynamis for the billionth time for your Duelist's Chapeau.

If I had the money I would buy a new car every 3 months and replace it every 3 months. However if money came that easy to me I probably wouldn't appreciate that new car for long.Same thing here.

Here you're ignoring the fact that people who spend a lot of time on something are very reluctant to entirely drop it, regardless of how shitty the experience is. Aside from that some will stay because they have friends in-game.

I drop something quicker than Doc Holliday can pull the trigger in Tombstone when it isn't something I enjoy. I can't speak for others.

I'll call this into question. To name some examples, we've had people asking for extra stats on gear, often citing FFXI's stats and not realizing the balance issues those would cause progression-wise and gear design-wise (before even getting into how such stats would affect actual gameplay). We've had people asking for Dynamis and Nyzul Isle clones, gotten them and had one (Diadem) shit on for not being a source of raid gear and the other (PotD) labeled as repetitive (despite following almost the exact same structure as Nyzul Isle sans the floors with bullshit lamp placements).

What else is there? Pankration? A horribly-designed pet battle system that with some major tweaks could have been decent but was abandoned.

Moblin Maze Mongers? A decent system that was abandoned too early and then was implemented a second time (see: Meeble Burrows) because reasons.

Campaign? We already have that via FATEs, and the only difference between the two is that FATE mobs don't one-shot you the way Campaign mobs could.

Besieged? An unsustainable model, since that (along with the original implementation of colonization) assumes a continuously high in-game population.

Assault? We have this already in the form of dungeons, just without the classisms.

This all said, I'm willing to discuss things we could actually learn and improve from XI that don't mess with progression, but such examples are few and far in between.

PS: Before anyone mentions Delve and the several hundred other events with a single word for a name, those are all pretty much the same thing, just with different names and currencies. Collect gimmick (either items or currency) => pop and kill mob => get loot or get nothing depending on RNG => repeat.

And Vermillion is so much better than Pankration? How many people play that?

The difference between campaign and fates is you played a role in an alliance vs beast war. Not just fought beast because they happened to be at a blue icon thing on the map with no story tied to their circumstance.

At least Besieged was an fugging actual public system for more than 20 players that you could see other players participating in from the server having varying level ranges from low level to the BiS people. And it was crazy fun, and had a branching quest line depending on who won or lost. You make it seem insignificant, but after effects do add immersion and encouraging someone to care about what happens to the world.

Assault and Dungeons are nothing alike except that they take place in an instance. There were dynamics there that are not present here like awareness, enemy tendencies and AI that make or break runs.

Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean everyone does. So if you didn't like it that's fine. I like most I see in this game, but the combat and closed-ness of content makes me feel like The Man in the Bubble sometimes.

[Skivvy]

PS: Before anyone mentions Delve and the several hundred other events with a single word for a name, those are all pretty much the same thing, just with different names and currencies. Collect gimmick (either items or currency) => pop and kill mob => get loot or get nothing depending on RNG => repeat.

I'm sorry to not be able to address the rest of your post at this moment, but your PS caught my eye.

Regardless of the game you play, MMO endgame at the very core is essentially the same. Run content repeatedly, obtain upgrades.

The issue with XIV's endgame is that it is incredibly limited and gets dull fast. Major patches generally brings us 2 dungeons, one 24-man raid, and one 8-man which are then put on farm-mode for your most current ilvl needs. While it is nice they even give us new content, it comes at the price of making almost everything else obsolete and forgotten. XIV boasts quite the selection of dungeons and raids, but there is very little reason to go back to them as a level 50 player outside of your daily roulettes.

XI is no different in that you are continually running content for upgrades, but your event options were far greater. For end-game gearing, you had salvage/assaults, Nyzul, Einherjar, Sky, Sea, Abyssea NMs, Limbus, Dynamis (and probably some others I am forgetting) all at your disposal in your quest to obtain relevant end-game gear. These all come with their own very distinct objectives and requirements which set them apart from each other. They now also have also have Escha, Delve, Skirmish, Ambuscade, etc.

To break those events down a little further, assaults consisted of about 40 different "dungeons" you could choose from, Limbus had 15+ different sections to choose, Dynamis consisted of 10 different zones to run. Sea/Sky had numerous different main focuses (NMs) as well depending on your taste for the day.

So yes, while all endgame gaming is essentially grinding content for marginal upgrades, it doesn't all have to be a complete snore. Spamming the same 2-3 dungeons and 1-2 raids gets old fast.

I am not asking for XI's exact content to be put into XIV. I am asking to have XI's endgame variety put into XIV.

[Awful]

Too bad that this isn't like WoW at all just to name some obvious differences..
-No talent system
-No actual good ranked PvP gear
-FF14 has only 1 difficulty in terms of raiding (Savage or go home there's no mid tier)
-Stats are dumbed down even a monkey can understand
-tanks DPS, Healers DPS, DPS DPS, your family DPS's, your friends DPS in WoW healers just healed, tanks did dmg but not enough to make a difference
-"Glamour is the true endgame"- RPers static raiding
-Legendary items VS Relic is a 1 sided battle
-Raiding items VS 240 there's no reward for raiders compared to WoW where you have Raid finder > Normal > Heroic > Mythic

XI is just too archaic to even be implemented, yes the ideas can be put in but having them play exactly the same would be pretty redundant I don't want a XI.2 I'm content with playing FF14 it's a decent MMO but not perfect if it was then i'd be playing that and so would the world. If this game was like XI I wouldn't play people have nostalgia and you're right to have it but others don't share that same feeling like myself, I was more avid WoW player but even I don't want this game to be just like WoW then what'd be the point? This game has charm most MMOs these days don't have any at all i've laughed at the Hildibrand quests, I actually liked the story and I love the combat and boss/EX themes with their amazing mechanics.

FFXI though has it's many classes which I do like however the problem is that people have so many ideas/character fantasy that it's just too much for a game depicting what it wants and what people want leading to the most entitled people in this game coming off as whiners. Wait till Red Mage and Samurai come out people are going to cry a friggen storm because it's not like what it was in XI or it's not what I wanted it to be, you're not a game designer SE makes the choices, decisions we pay the sub, yes we can be upset but seeing all these forums just makes me disappointed and have no faith in the playerbase. It's all "I want I want I want!!!" while putting no effort into this game I wish this game had an actual progressive raiding scene instead of people just wanting to do shit because it's glamour or it's for a mount or whatever this game hasn't been about the gear since coil 1-9 when Syrcus Tower put the upgrades for free ilvl 110 gear just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[ADVSS]

idk i remember when i90 was max that that was the level of tome and raid gear, minus(and patched in later than at launch) the weapon which was only a mere 5 ilevels higher. Then again the max amount of weekly tomes were like 300 or something initially the upgrade thing was cool as a way to dye the gear, but i sort of agree i dont really like them being locked in raids or the current 24 man,

[Fevelle]

Make FFXIV more like FFXIV and not like any other game.

[Lorielle]

I don't know why you guys keep arguging this. As much as I want XIV to learn a bit more from XI on some aspects, it's probably not going to happen. We gave examples in the past, but it seems like people have forgotten it or damned it saying it won't work.

This is unrelated, but POTD I have a bone to pick and have been meaning to say...Why push this content out so fast? Why do people that want a challenge have to WAIT just to get what they want? Why not delay your content, make sure it is fully good to go and THEN release it so it can receive a PROPER review instead of us just being disappointed until the next patch if we even make it that far? Just my thoughts on that.

I'd address some of the XI concerns myself, but really..I'm tired of talking about the same thing. I only logged into XIV the other day just so I could access the OF..Ironically, I find the OF more entertaining than the game itself at this point.