Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0? And vice versa.

[Katana190]

I think that has been twisted around. IIRC they also mentioned the development of NIN with that, so the interpretations might vary

This right here. I don't remember them saying 3 jobs was too much stress for them, and everyone I talk to doesn't remember them saying that too. Now what I do remember them saying is Ninja was way too stressful and they won't be doing another patch job, and I was very up to date with the heavensward hype and that's all I remember. I have heard many people say this same thing though, I haven't seen anything myself on it though.

[loreleidiangelo]

Future tanks and healers will ALWAYS be weighed by either a.) how much DPS they can perform while marginally assisting at their primary role, or b.) how well they can singularly perform at their primary role, thus giving more time for the other tank or healer to...DPS.

Frankly, I'd rather SE work on fixing across-the-board potencies, cooldowns, and encounter designs FIRST, then worry about new classes.

[Xlantaa]

Yes, they should add 3 classes, one of each. For some reason.

First, you cannot let a specific role without a new class, that's rude, and will cause unbalance: E.g, you release only a DPS and healer. Everyone wil get them at first, so the first weeks wil lbe horrible in Duty Finder and class balance (like happened with ninja, and Dark Knight)

Seconds, right now, we're: 3 tanks, 3 melel, 4 ranged, 3 healer. Releasing 1 tank, 1 melee and 1 healer will balance all. 4 tanks, 4 melee, 4 ranged, 4 healers.

That's my bet.

If it is necesary discard a role, I will discard a DPS. Discard a Tank/healer is shoot to the DF foot.

[Cipher_Zaabiz]

The samurai might wield katanas or, what is also an option, a glaive. The fighting style would change with the weapon used.

[Caitlyn]

At the moment, we have:

3 tanks
3 melees
2 supporters
2 mages
3 healers

Time to throw in 1 additional Supporter (Redmage?) and 1 additional Mage (Geomancer, Dancer, I dont know) ; )

[Dzian]

Stuff

It could be as simple as increasing the potency of mitigation on tanks as well as the amount of damage enemies do. it wouldn't be overly complicated either.

the issue with mitigation is it's weak and unnoticeable in most cases. and part of that is that also down to the incoming damage overall. when a tank can spend most of there time in dps stance because they are taking nextto no damage. using rampart to mitigate 20% of that almost neglible damage makes an unnoticeable amount of difference.. in most content a tank could run through without a single cooldown and it wouldn't make a real difference at all as to how much healing was required.

They could make a huge boost to the potency of mitigation cooldowns and add a huge buff to the damage enemies do. if enemies hit for like double there current damage but rampart mitigated say 50% of that for 20 seconds, you create a scenario where there becomes a noticeable difference between tanks that use mitigation effectively and tanks that don't bother and also increase the overall importance of healing. the problem that exists at the moment as far as tanks go is mitigation doesn't realy matter or make a difference the damage the y take is so laughable they can literally pull every single mob in a dungeon and / or spend most of there time in a dps stance. and its the same for healers.

a scholars sacred soil for example is never going to save the group from a massive incoming damage spike or bosses ultimate attack, only 2 things happen here.

1 the group clears the dps check which results in the incoming damage being next to nothing and the group sails through with ease. in which case using defensive buffs is often laughable because the bosses ultimate will hardly scratch the parties hp pools so mitigating 10% of nothing ultimately is nothing.
2 the group fails the dps check which results in an instant wipe and no amount of defencive buffs or healing will save you.. sacred soil divine viel fey covenant succor and stoneskin, you're still gonna wipe.

from a healers perspective or at least my scholars for example another reason I say mitigation is laughable Is because it doesn't change very much.
if a tank eats 15k damage and mitigates none of it. 1 of my psyckiks isn't enough to heal him. but 2 ends up with the tank being overhealed
if that tank ate that same 15k attack and mitigated 20% of it with a cooldown. it wouldn't change. 1 of my psykiks wouldn't be enough to heal him. but 2 would result in overheal. and its because of this that the mitigation goes completely unnoticed and is often irrellivent. the amount of healing required is no different whether a cool down is used or not.

this is why I think they need to move away from being so dps orinentated and make mitigation and healing more important.

[Zojha]

the issue with mitigation is it's weak and unnoticeable in most cases.

No. The issue is that mitigation is only useful up to the point of survival - if you can survive the tankbuster + following AA (Whether with a small mitigation cooldown or a huge one), more is a waste, as healers can pick up the slack. Mitigation has one point and one point alone - to extend your effective HP. Healers function the exact same purpose - to convert Mana into HP and thus, extend the effective HP of the party. This means the two can be substituted as long as people don't die instantly and whether that's favorable depends on the conversion rate of mitigation/mana to effective HP respectively.

This alone wouldn't be such a big issue. The big issue is that healers are so powerful that the effective HP of a party is pretty much infinite if mechanics are followed and any boss could be downed even if DPS are performing very badly simply because the fight goes on forever. For this reason, hard enrages exist. And since the hard enrage cuts off the fight at a given point in time, mitigation and healing only need to barely make it to that point, any further is wasted. DPS on the other hand helps you cut off the fight before the artificial cut-off, thus winning the fight. And that's why DPS is king in progression, which trickles down.

Note that if healers are already this powerful in high end content, many will resort to DPS in low end content out of sheer boredom. And tanks have even less of a reason to bother with mitigation because they'll hardly be one-shot ever.

Frankly, it cannot be solved without nerfing healers big time and I doubt people are much in favor of that, so the DPS metagame is here to stay.

[loreleidiangelo]

Zojha, it's funny that you should say that, as I actually made a similar statent in the healer subforum - in no other MMO that I have played have heals scaled so powerfully relative to max HP, without some form of cooldown beyond the global on them to boot. That's why upthread I said I'd prefer that they focus on scaling and re-tuning cooldowns and such so that the meta doesn't continue to be this weird amalgamation of "but what do they bring DPS-WISE???", rather than add more jobs that will only continue to be judged by that measure.

[Vexander]

Seconds, right now, we're: 3 tanks, 3 melee, 4 ranged, 3 healer.

I rather wish people wouldn't say, "4 ranged." It feels disingenuous. Its more accurate to say we have 2 ranged, and 2 mage DPS. DoM has 3 healers and 2 DPS. We're due a new mage DPS class. Maybe then SE will stop making the DOM sets identical for both healers and DPS (Shiva) and instead differentiate the two roles (Could've been Shiva Healer and Ramuh DPS).

[Toranja]

The title for this thread confuses me.