PLD highest DPS tank single target

[Destous]

I disapprove of this, Flash does need a rework, but making it LITERALLY overpower is not the right direction

As opposed to making it literally Unleash?

Overpower has a narrow cone. Flash could have a wide cone, like you see on one of those tree mobs, and maybe a 5s CD.

[Alistaire]

As opposed to making it literally Unleash?

Overpower has a narrow cone. Flash could have a wide cone, like you see on one of those tree mobs, and maybe a 5s CD.

Ohgod the special snowflake syndrome here. It being "literally unleash" or "literally overpower" in shape doesn't make you any less special. We don't care about special; we care about competent. And right now 2/3 tanks are competent in dungeon trash packs and other aoe situations.

[Sarcatica]

For Flash, idk what to feel tbh. It just doesn't make sense to add damage to Flash. Like what, a light comes out and you do damage? Add burn effect? PLD thematically is translated to Knight in JP, so PLD shouldn't have access to holy element. It just doesn't make that much sense like what Overpower and Unleashed because those are offensive skill.

Perhaps even giving more flat enmity total per Flash is acceptable so PLD can rotate GB/RA more.

[Nicobo]

....PLD thematically is translated to Knight in JP, so PLD shouldn't have access to holy element. It just doesn't make that much sense like what Overpower and Unleashed because those are offensive skill.....

PLD used to have HOLY actually...

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/spelll...ml?job=paladin

[Destous]

Ohgod the special snowflake syndrome here. It being "literally unleash" or "literally overpower" in shape doesn't make you any less special. We don't care about special; we care about competent. And right now 2/3 tanks are competent in dungeon trash packs and other aoe situations.

Dial it back, buddy. The details matter.

Yes, making it literally Overpower or literally Unleash with a more PLD themed animation would appease the complaints about Flash. However, this game is about more than strictly mechanics. Your logic followed to a logical extreme is 3 tanks who are all mechanically identical, but with thematic animations behind those mechanics. That's not a step in the right direction; and yes, it does matter. We're talking about a game, not a machine.

The goal for Flash should be AoE damage + enmity multiplier. From that proposed goal, there are a decent amount of options. Picking something easily differentiated from Overpower and Unleash, but just as useful and powerful, is possible and important. The classes should perform equally, but also feel very different when played.

[Lambdafish]

Ohgod the special snowflake syndrome here. It being "literally unleash" or "literally overpower" in shape doesn't make you any less special. We don't care about special; we care about competent. And right now 2/3 tanks are competent in dungeon trash packs and other aoe situations.

I'll reiterate Destous's comment and say that your comment is unhelpful. We all know flash is a problem, nobody is arguing that, but your solution is ERMERGERD ADD MER DAMAGE! rather than actually thinking about what it means for job variety and diversity. Flash is paladins primary AOE enmity move, and making it exactly the same as the other two doesn't add a lot to what makes PLD a PLD (which right now is a bad skill, but could be changed). As was said, there are so many interesting avenue's to go down, and you are shooting down the people who are on your side of the argument, good job

[Lambdafish]

As opposed to making it literally Unleash?

Overpower has a narrow cone. Flash could have a wide cone, like you see on one of those tree mobs, and maybe a 5s CD.

I didn't say it was good as is, but PLD needs something that makes it unique. I wonder if a drastic cooldown reduction to CoS, meaning that you can have the DoT up almost 100% of the time, with a reduced potency would be better way to control PLD damage, rather than homogenising skills.

[Ryahask]

I didn't say it was good as is, but PLD needs something that makes it unique. I wonder if a drastic cooldown reduction to CoS, meaning that you can have the DoT up almost 100% of the time, with a reduced potency would be better way to control PLD damage, rather than homogenising skills.

PLD already has a great deal which makes it unique - namely the support abilities.

Clemency, Divine Veil, Hallowed Ground, and Cover are all exceptionally unique. Neither WAR or DRK have an ability which is close to as unique.

I wouldn't expect many improvements to PLD AoE in future, despite the common complaint, due to the fact that content is balanced around 8 mans. PLDs do not require better AoE damage in an 8 man.

I believe the tanks are quite effectively balanced, although in a semi-awkward manner.

WAR - Highest DPS, Least Mitigation, Unreliable Mitigation, Medium Support
DRK - Middle DPS, Equal Mitigation (Magical), Reliable Mitigation, Limited Support
PLD - Lowest DPS, Equal Mitigation (Physical), Most reliable Mitigation, Extreme Support

[Lambdafish]

WAR - Highest DPS, Least Mitigation, Unreliable Mitigation, Medium Support
DRK - Middle DPS, Equal Mitigation (Magical), Reliable Mitigation, Limited Support
PLD - Lowest DPS, Equal Mitigation (Physical), Most reliable Mitigation, Extreme Support

The problem with this is that the different categories are not equivilent, and having better damage is almost always better than better support. Abilities like divine veil and cover are great to have but will not be used very often, whereas better damage is always used, this is why people want more damage for PLD. My point was simply that fixing this issue should follow PLDs design rather than cloning abilities from the other tanks.

[Ryahask]

The problem with this is that the different categories are not equivalent, and having better damage is almost always better than better support. Abilities like divine veil and cover are great to have but will not be used very often, whereas better damage is always used, this is why people want more damage for PLD. My point was simply that fixing this issue should follow PLDs design rather than cloning abilities from the other tanks.

Actually fight design is the issue as opposed to the categories listed. Non-instant defensive support plays a limited role in fights as it's simply unnecessary, it's a crutch - not a mechanical necessity. This is partly due to the design of fights and partly due to Job design, in that only 2 Jobs have significant defensive cool-downs which aren't and as such they cannot be required.

I agree that PLD's should have more distinction, but I think that about every Job. Despite liking FF14 there's one area which is frankly atrocious and that's the level of homogenization present in every role. However, I personally don't agree that PLD's require buffs at this point.

WAR has the "least" mitigation because of how people play. If tanks are forced to be in tank stance, WAR will come ahead due to frequent IB + Infuriate. It's a trade off of either dealing huge DPS or mitigate damage.

What's relevant in in mitigation with Warrior is the reliability. Effectively all tanks have equal mitigation, but reliability is important. WAR's defensive CDs compete for resources with WAR's offensive CDs. This is untrue of the other two tanks. A WAR having to emphasize mitigation loses a substantial portion of their DPS, far more than a DRK or PLD doing so. This is all while requiring very precise timing, which even among good Warriors leads to massive numbers of wipes, and having to hold back resources on a constant basis. To give you a basic example of this - Warriors tend to have a difficult time managing the Serpent (no legs) add in Nidhogg Ex as most players don't time busters and to survive the second stack safely requires IB + Storm's Path + Vengeance, the third (if DPS is low) requires Holmgang.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting WAR is weak - not even close. My point is that people have a very optimistic view of what WAR can accomplish, the reality is a great deal less significant - unless the fight allows. Content where WAR can stay in Deliverance is an issue; that's where WAR starts to creep ahead of other tanks. Unfortunately there are a large number of fights designed in this manner, or with incredibly easy to predict timing which facilitates stance swapping. I want more tanks to see the spotlight than just WAR, but I hope SE accomplishes it through improving fight design rather than buffs which will likely leave one or more tank behind.