Healer DPS metagame for non savage content is getting old

[Destous]

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You don't need to have class specialized stats to shuffle stat weights. SE needs to tweak how effective these effects are on it's different roles and DPS types. Right now, seeing every serious healer gunning for the hitcap is the biggest flaw in this game's stat weights. The second biggest flaw is that the only defensive secondary stat in the game is parry, and it doesn't scale at all in line with the way offensive stats scale.

You don't need to revamp the entire stat list to change stat weights.

[HyperiusUltima]

To be honest I think it's less about the stats and more about what the devs create content for, based on where people should be in progression. Messing with stats won't really change anything, but overall they made it more geared towards healers healing rather than attacking. Most people want faster runs as usual, just because it makes the game go by faster and you can skip phases.

Despite what happens, when you know a fight and know what happens as a healer, you're capable of adding extra DPS. The whole "Healer DPS Metagame" is just entirely dependent on the person's skill and capability to foresee what will happen in a fight at any given time. There also are DPS windows for Healers, which need to be timed right to work. Hot Tail/Wing from Nidhogg are good examples because he stops his DPS to cast those two abilities back-to-back explicitly, allowing extra damage or healing to be done while dealing with the mechanics from Horrid Roar and Hot Tail/Wing.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

They DPS because SE can't manage to make an encounter where the best strategy isn't "burn as hard as possible when possible". It's not that they need to heal, because savage encounters and DPS checks are designed with an assumed 0 DPS from the healers; but the best strategy for every encounter inevitably becomes to throw as much damage as possible as a top priority..

I'll agree that SE needs to make better encounters, but you also need to realize, that the content needs to be aggressive and difficult. Every fight in the history of ever that has been in this game that has ever been a raid or an expert primal has had an enrage timer. While these fights are designed to have 0 healing dps, and minimal tank dps, with all tanks in tank stance. You seem to forget that the actual dps aren't robots, and that to actually make up the differance of what they are lacking, has to be made up within the collective of the tanks and healers to be able to meet the dps required to beat these encounters. Currently SE sees accuracy as a problem anyways, maybe in part to healing, but mostly in part to the fact that its a pretty annoying stat to manage for everyone, but I believe they said they were going to change acc in a live letter at pax (Don't quote me on this).

TL : DR - Acc sucks, but its pretty much required if any healer wants to do dps, and their dps is pretty much required in the current meta of the game if you want to actually clear difficult content.

[Tint]

While these fights are designed to have 0 healing dps, and minimal tank dps, with all tanks in tank stance. You seem to forget that the actual dps aren't robots, and that to actually make up the differance of what they are lacking, has to be made up within the collective of the tanks and healers to be able to meet the dps required to beat these encounters.

in other words: the actual dps don't improve becuase "they aren't robots" and tanks and healers have to give 110% instead to carry their lazy asses.

next time you should argue with something like "gear is not good enough" or something...

[Khalithar]

The only thing it would do is make tanks either suffer a buttload of damage all the time to force healers to always heal.

I just want to chime in on this because Blizzard did exactly that in the wrath of the lich king xpac a few years ago and tanking in this scenario wasn't very fun. The average boss could hit you for roughly half your hp, popping a cooldown in these situations just meant you died in three hits instead of two and gave the healers an extra moment to top you off. It created a scenario where everyone in the raid group had to constantly be at 100% hp at all times because if they were less than that there would be a good chance of them being killed by the next AoE, is that really what healers want in this game? I agree the damage is a bit too low now but they have to be careful about going too far in making it higher because it could very easily create the scenario I listed above.

Now there can most certainly be a middle ground between the two, but I have a feeling (I could be wrong) that even if they did a small increase in the outgoing damage, healers would still figure out the patterns and continue to work on maximizing their dps, everyone would figure out how much extra VIT (if any) they needed to survive then go back to maximizing their dps because as someone said somewhere in the thread, so far "throwing as much dps as possible at something" is still the most viable strategy.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

in other words: the actual dps don't improve becuase "they aren't robots" and tanks and healers have to give 110% instead to carry their lazy asses.

next time you should argue with something like "gear is not good enough" or something...

I'm gonna be honest, I don't understand your comment. Your saying that, I'm saying the dps are lazy? Or are you saying you don't want to give 100% in encounters? Could you elaborate further.

[Alistaire]

Sounds like the misconception that healers contributing to dps is something "to carry the dps players". Healers should dps because that's how this game is built.

[Tint]

I'm gonna be honest, I don't understand your comment. Your saying that, I'm saying the dps are lazy? Or are you saying you don't want to give 100% in encounters? Could you elaborate further.

i am saying that tanks and healers aren't robots too.

if the actual dps can't beat the damage check, then the actual dps aren't even giving 85%. so why is it again the tanks and healers who have to handle the dps check?

if the actual dps are undergeared, okay, or if you just want to skip phases, whatever, kill it faster, okay, i am not against healer dps, but to say "the actual dps aren't robots" and tanks and healers have to bring the dps, that's nothing else than carrying the actual dps, because they are simply not good enough to bring 85% of their class potential.

(for dps checks they add the dps of 4 DD's and 2 Tanks together and cut it by 15%, that's why a DD only has to bring 85%...)

[Zojha]

It created a scenario where everyone in the raid group had to constantly be at 100% hp at all times because if they were less than that there would be a good chance of them being killed by the next AoE[...]

Which just goes back to healing being way too powerful.

If a healer can heal 50% of one's health per GCD, making healers heal requires mobs to hit for roughly 50% of one's health per GCD. If a healer takes 10 GCDs for the same health, mobs need to hit for far less for the same effect.

But that alone doesn't really help much. The issue is that healing simply has no mastery to it. If you make healers only heal in the current heal setup, it becomes a 2-4 button job. The only thing resembling synergy are free cure and benefic proccs. Decisionmaking is nigh nonexistent. Mana management is a non-issue. How often do you even think about what heal to use? Why ever use a smaller one unless you're out of mana from holy spamming? Tetragrammaton, Benediction, Lustrate and Essential Dignity all cost zero mana either, so using your emergency cooldowns outside of emergencies has no consequences.

It's a super-shallow system. Not really surprising many healers DPS out of sheer boredom.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

If the actual dps can't beat the damage check, then the actual dps aren't even giving 85%.

Thing is that a lot of DPS can meet that check. Its very easy to see if you have enough or not simply by beating the SSS test dummies in Hinterlands. The problem is making that translate to a 12-13 minute fight where doing any and all sorts of mechanics can and will result in lost dps.

For example, In A7S, 2 people will deal with jails at the same time. If both the caster jail and the pyhsical jail happen, you have to throw the respective dps into those jails, thus losing actual dps for the encounter, albeit for 5-10 seconds at the very least, and at 20 seconds at most. Over the course of a fight that can add up easily, and all that lost dps has to be made up somewhere, either by the dps actually ramping it up on phases where they can deal it without hinderance, or by the collective tanks and healers, who may or may not be dealing with less mechanics and have lots more up-time on the enemy. Either way, as it is right now, everyone needs to be doing the most dps as possible, and to tie this into OP's thread/post, If melding accuracy on healers helps benefit that scenario, then there isn't much you can do until the time comes when the meta changes again and accuracy gets fixed up or the encounters are less restricting on how much dps you need.