End Game and Raid Finder

[thegreatonemal]

I like to ask what is your definition of skill? And what do you consider a raid fight that requires skill and not memorization? Isn'the the whole point of end game raiding to test the players ability to execute under extreme punishing condition? Like be able to react/perform the mechanics without failing. If the end game fight does not present that challenge then what is the point?

Because it is just memorization the bosses do the same thing at the exact same time every single time you fight the only variation being you may or may not be selected as "aoe circle target A" or "tether to south side of map". the only challenge being able to maintain your rotations/buffs for as long as you can.

[Zojha]

Because it is just memorization the bosses do the same thing at the exact same time every single time you fight the only variation being you may or may not be selected as "aoe circle target A" or "tether to south side of map".

Well, the alternative is randomization of mechanics, in which case you need to make sure they are still beatable even if RNG decides to really eff you over. After all, a boss can't do more than he is coded to do.

Plus, any reaction time check is affected by latency, so testing that is often more of an internet provider check.

So yeah...they could try around a bit more with the randomization, but that's really all that works well in an MMO setting. It's a bit more effort on the dev part, but doable.

[LunaFaye]

having read most of the discussion I feel like some deja vu. There was a time, everybody and their mother was doing what mr. happy was doing. Most people didn't even care if they had the same party setup, just because he was doing it in his videos, it must of been the correct way. A lot of people to that time nearly got a heart attack when you tried a other method, that worked so much better for your own team composition and in fact cleared content before those people, that were watching ffxiv instead of playing it.

Nowadays it's the same and I don't think we are getting anywhere with that. However some people should ask themselves why it's such a big deal to them if these raids are in party/duty/raid finder. If you have a static and you wanna do the same method some you tuber or twitch person is doing, great don't let somebody stop you. But if other people would love to see it accessible to players without a static than it shouldn't be your business.

[Archaell]

The accessibility is the main reason why the content is hard, and it has less to do with skill itself as it is combination of gear, skill and time.

If you have enough time to practice after certain amount of wipes you can clear it. Of course the content is tuned so it is exploiting item levels of gated gear so that even the best of players have hard time clearing it at first and have to wait for the upgrades. Why? To create an illusion there is more content than there is. I would argue that if the difficulty itself is the gate there is no need to introduce additional weekly gates with which comes another problem - the gates are either there or they are not. This current system lacks flexibility to adjust while the content is getting older but isn't outdated yet. If you want to get into raiding mid season etc. you are gonna have "fun time" trying to even find static to play with due to lack of both gear and experience.

Getting enough time to practice takes another hit - you need 8 players who have time at the same time and people have lives! So while you yourself could practice 5 hours a day, speeding up your progression by huge amount, most of the statics raid for something like 5 hours a week. That is 5 hours vs 35 of experience and from here comes the danger for the raiding community.

If you could Q for savage quickly (30 minutes Q etc) in DF you would be able to practice there with pugs without the difficulty of personal management which comes with static and people's schedules. Now, getting a clear in pug is much more difficult but there is a certain huge advantage - the player pool is bigger. In static you might clear a floor in 10 hours etc. - two weeks of raiding. PuGs might take 100 hours for the same thing and with certain amount of luck till you find honest players, but 1 hour of individual time is easier to come by than 1 hour of 8 players' time at the same time.

This would devaluate the special snowflake status the raiders get, because suddenly pugs could progress through raids at faster rate than them. It might not be probable, unless the community would be honest about their progression, but the possibility would be there.

There is the argument "but the content would get nerfed!" well that has the same value as saying "but the parsers cause harassment!". Same thing.

[KarstenS]

And that is something that needs to change. Just because other games are doing this doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do.

And when they do this, they can remove the chests. Whats the reason to get gear in the raid, when there is no need for said gear?

But if other people would love to see it accessible to players without a static than it shouldn't be your business.

Making it acessible to people without a static would mean: ease it up ... alot.

This should not be our business, when people ask to touch the onliest challanging content in the game?

[Archaell]

And when they do this, they can remove the chests. Whats the reason to get gear in the raid, when there is no need for siad gear?

Don't forget that you need said gear to carry all the lazy and bad players! Better your gear, more lazy the majority of community can be!

The raids can't work without the gear. It would be possible if gear (stat wise) was removed entirely from the game and we were left with glamours... but can you imagine our community to do all the content at the minimal ilvl? That would be so hilarious!

[Ilan]

Then you should be trying to encourage new players to participate in raiding, not locking them out. As it stands, the current system serves as something to slow character progression and prevent them from taking part in the new raids.

You forget that Tomestone of Lore and Weeping City have lockouts. Even if I wanted to farm gear there, the game prevents me from doing so. I have been farming for ilvl 220 gear from Alexander Midas, but after several dozen runs, I'm still short 1 Shaft and 2 Bolts from getting a full set. However, raid groups on Ultros refuse to even talk to you unless you have a full set of ilvl 230+ already.


And that is something that needs to change. Just because other games are doing this doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. Maybe you'd have more people interested in raids if they could actually gear up to do them. I don't consider a lot of the raids skill because failing a mechanic is punished with instant death and instant death is never a test of skill. It's a test of memorization and if you take too long, you die anyways.

They already made it easier for newer players after they lifted the weekly lockouts from midas. So please don't tell me its not easier to get gear for newer players. And of course does this system slow you down a bit with purpose because SE earns money with your payed playtime.

And what do you want to change at the raidsystem? You need skill to progress through the mechanics or you wipe and you have to know your class good or you wipe. Both of it doesn't lock out new players btw. What else could they do that requires "skill"?

In other words you just say that you don't get your gear instant on 230+ and that the raids are more or less to hard for you, so its a waste of time.

[thegreatonemal]

snip.

Her point is that no raid groups will take her not for lack of skill but lack of gear because unlike you or me she didn't start at at ilvl 220 when the patch went live. its the whole catch 22 of raiding in this game you need experience to raid but can't raid without experience. the fact that newer people who got to 60 a few weeks ago and want to raid can't because they are 10 ilvls too low and have no raiding experience. yet raiders constantly complain about how hard it is finding new people or subs or what have its our own damn fault. at this stage in the game a way to help the ilvl problem at least would be to ease back more gear lockouts

[Ilan]

Her point is that no raid groups will take her not for lack of skill but lack of gear because unlike you or me she didn't start at at ilvl 220 when the patch went live. its the whole catch 22 of raiding in this game you need experience to raid but can't raid without experience. the fact that newer people who got to 60 a few weeks ago and want to raid can't because they are 10 ilvls too low and have no raiding experience. yet raiders constantly complain about how hard it is finding new people or subs or what have its our own damn fault. at this stage in the game a way to help the ilvl problem at least would be to ease back more gear lockouts

It is not hard to get higher than 220 it just takes a bit time, i don't see a reason for lowering the lockouts. And yes the people are somewhat stupid with their requirements.

But there is a easy way to ignore these stupid requirements, just create your own static with friends or other players from your fc or linkshells. This is what we did since we want to raid with people who we like and not with the wanna be elite.

Why bother with randoms if you can do it with friends? Everyone in FF can raid and no one needs existing statics to raid.

[Artorias112]

This raid tier have random mechanics i.e., A6s Brawler Cannon/drill, A7s jails combo. The fact of the matter is that in a game like this there can't be 100% rng in mechanics otherwise it would be almost impossible to clear for 99% of the people. Can you imagine the ffxiv boss acts like bloodborne or dark souls series? How many ppl will complain the game is too hard? Not to discount your suggestion bit is there a successful MMO out there that does 100% rng mechanics and no memorization?