I guess it's time

[Claymore65]

Oh no doubt I'm sure it a good thing for people, I'm just wondering how long and fast it will become irrelevant generally speaking it pretty quick a patch away perhaps time will tell don't get me wrong I sincerely hope it does succeed!

It depends really. As far as playing for fun, it's got a lot going for it. Randomized dungeons with rogue-like elements are endlessly repeatable, so it'll be perfect for players interested in just doing something different and fun for awhile. For the hardcore, it probably won't provide too much until they add the later levels, where it's supposedly going to be incredibly challenging. If it provides good to great exp, it'll pretty much always be relevant because it sounds like a really fun way to level alternate classes. I know I'd rather run through a cool, randomized dungeon experience to level than just spam the same dungeon or FATEs or Levequests.It will be especially helpful for leveling DPS classes, since queue times are so much higher.

Overall, I think it's more intended to be "fun" than "incredibly useful". There are plans to add more levels as patches go on as well, so the weapon may still stay relevant as long as its upgraded over time. I think Tome gear (since it takes longer to acquire and upgrade) might still be superior, but it'll likely serve as a great, fun way to get a decent weapon. I totally understand the concern though. It's only one week until it comes out though!

[Thayos]

Worth remembering is that Deep Dungeons is just more than a quick fix of content -- it's actually infrastructure that will remain in the game permanently.

In a recent interview, Yoshi said this content will continue evolving over future patches with new floors and new dungeons in other locations. So my take on that is that Deep Dungeons will get regular additions just like dungeons, 24-man raids, primals and 8-man raids.

Diadem is also infrastructure that could receive similar periodic upgrades throughout the game's lifespan. And had it not been so poorly designed, I think we'd be seeing expansions to it now rather than a complete reworking.

Aquapolis is also good content infrastructure that can easily be expanded and added to.

This is why I'm excited for the game's future. If DD is good and the Diadem gets fixed, already we're going to have an influx of content that's accessible by just about all of the playerbase while presumably offering a worthwhile reward to work toward. And this kind of content infrastructure (that can easily be expanded without needing to build completely new resources) appears to be a trend that SE will focus on moving forward.

Overall, I think it's more intended to be "fun" than "incredibly useful".

Fun + useful is the holy grail. A lot of the progression content in this game is based upon repetition, memorization and a whole lot of dying, which isn't always "fun" (but totally pays off when you make good progress). So I think people are really going to love having less-stressful content that's still mentally engaging and also rewards you with a solid weapon for a primary or backup job.

Another thing about DD -- it's content that longtime players can do with people who are virtually new to the game. That's pretty big for recruitment. I have a couple of RL friends who might start playing just because we'd be able to run that content together. Also, the ability to level jobs in DD is going to make the leveling grind much more enjoyable than it is now (for new and old players alike).

[KitingGenbu]

That is not what I mean when I say that. The core system is it's battle system, world structure, content structure, and how that content is present to the intended audience. It isn't talking about what it grabbed from.

An example explaining the difference between those elements you listed as a whole are different from the basis by which they were gathered from would be great. I understand the combat was fundamentally changed from 1.0 to 2.0; however, the presentation that you feel is core has honestly changed from 2.0 to 3.0. As I mentioned, and trying to understand your point of presentation, the progression of class abilities/passives was the same from 1-50 then changed from 50-60, meaning abilities and passives were weaved around each other as you leveled. I really would love for someone to link the dev teams reasoning as to why we didn't get passives though and before someone chimes in hoping 4.0 will introduce only passives, please think about how silly that is before typing it.

Again though, a more clear example would be great of the points you listed so at the very least I can understand your point better since I'm not seeing much of a difference in some of the points from what I mentioned in my previous statement.

[MagiusNecros]

That iLevel of weapon would be an upgrade for many players on their main jobs.

Too bad handouts of i240 Lore weapons will be on the way making that dere glowstick obsolete anyway.

[Iromi]

You're right. It's still there but what they did take away from me was 1.23b. I though 2.0 was just gonna be an updated version of 1.x. It is a updated version for sure, but they cut so many corners that I ask myself, was it really worth it? It's only coming to light now but I complained about this to FC back in Patch 2.2. I foresaw this would eventually snowball into a gridlock where they can't add anything worthwhile to the game without changing some core mechanics.

I miss 1.23b I am in the same boat, thought 2.0 would just be an updated and improved version of 1.x, never got the impression it would be an entirely different game or else I'd never have really shown must interest.

[zosia]

Until the dev team gets over the notion that rewards should be given to everyone, (let me spoil it for you, they wont) then this game will continue to be an underwhelming 'sub for one month' type of MMO. The tedium required even for something simple as obtaining a triple triad card or minion is astounding in this game. The worst part of that tedium is how unrewarding the entire process is. What I mean by this is that the 'grind' required for most things in this game eventually gets nerfed into the ground. Farmed 15 mil for the hunting hawk? Look forward to when their drop rate is increased so high that they only sell for 200k. Spend 15 hrs a week to raid? Here is some gear that is marginally better and has the same skin as the normal mode gear.

The rewards of this game have been simplified down to a glamour and minion lobby that rewards the lowest amount of effort if you are willing to wait 3-6 months. You can can see this underwhelming reward problem in any aspect of this game, from minions and crafting to raiding and trials. Look at niddhog ex. Who really looks at those loot tables and gets excited about ugly looking alt weapons? Why not put raid ilvl accessories in trials like we had at one point? Even something as simple as that is too difficult for this dev team to wrap their heads around. They even botched the rewards for ramuh ex, learned their lesson, and put ilvl 110 rings on his loot table. Even after that ramuh debacle, the dev team keeps making mistakes with releasing trials with irrelevant gear.

Non-raid rewards should never be nerfed directly, only gear and level cap increases should serve as nerfs to obtaining most cosmetic rewards. Raids should be nerfed, as that has always been the way, but I am willing to guess people are incredibly fed up with working hard for minions, glamours, mounts and housing items only for those same items to be proliferated into the game as a cheap hook.

A good example is the thavnarian glamour set. That set should have remained rare, yet SE saw fit to make the set virtually worthless now. This practice can be seen throughout the game and it definitely affects sub numbers. Below in italics are the suggestions I think would turn this game around.

Stop nerfing every last piece of content and catering to the absolute lowest common denominator. I know raiders make up a small % of players, but a majority of the end game players are way better than what this game caters to and our player base deserves more compelling content.

Make the open world actually have teeth. None of this "monsters have more HP" BS that SE did with HW. If you go into a beastman stronghold, there should be monsters that can kill you in 2-3 hits. The world is entirely too silly when you can walk into a 'dangerous' area and roam around solo like you own the place.

Stop adding meaningless rewards. Niddhog EX should have had 240 rings.

Make dungeons interesting. People loved how Weeping city was not a 24-man netflix and chill session. Dungeons should be similar in difficulty.

Raid rewards should mirror what Wow's vertical progression looks like. Normal mode gets normal loot, mythic mode gets mythic loot. If you want the highest ilvl (savage in ffxiv/mythic in wow) gear, you gotta raid for it. You should also be able to progress your relics through raids and trials in addition to the boring relic grinds. Ofc Catch up gear should still be a thing, but only when the next tier comes out.
EX: tier 1 = 210 gear and catch up gear is ivl 200. tier 2 = 220 gear and catch up gear is ilvl 210.
This is pretty reasonable. There would be progression paths for both raiders and non raiders. Non-raiders would only be 10 ilvls behind the current max ilvl at all times. The power disparity between 10 ilvls is not so big that non-raiding players will be irrelevant.

If SE is hellbent on keeping the crappy overmeld system, can crafting gear just stay relevant the entire expansion? I really enjoy those 5% overmelds just to squeeze out +3 of some arbitrary stat so that way I can craft a new dress for someone next patch.......... -_- such compelling gameplay! I don't even know how to fix the crafting system this expansion, it has been terrible every step of the way. SOOOOOO glad it only took 9 months for them to figure out pots/foods should give you more than one per synth. F crafting, It gets me so mad I can't even think about it coherently.

Take it as you will. This is just me adding my two cents after setting sail as well.

[WellFooled]

The tedium required even for something simple as obtaining a triple triad card or minion is astounding in this game. The worst part of that tedium is how unrewarding the entire process is. What I mean by this is that the 'grind' required for most things in this game eventually gets nerfed into the ground.

I completely agree with your point. Interestingly, I feel my time is better rewarded for collecting Triple Triad cards than it is collecting gear and doing battle content. A rare, difficult to get, and useful TT card from 2.x is still just as rare, difficult to get, and useful now as it was then. Meanwhile even gear I collected a patch or two ago have become worthless glamour trophies. A odd few cards are easier to get since 2.x, but for the most part time invested in TT cards has had more lasting benefit for me than time invested in gear.

[Beetle]

I miss 1.23b I am in the same boat, thought 2.0 would just be an updated and improved version of 1.x, never got the impression it would be an entirely different game or else I'd never have really shown must interest.

I miss the old style of content from 1.23b. I enjoyed how combat was in that game more. Bunch of content/systems wish they found a way to add back into the game. Skirmish, (Basically HNM trials, with random loot chest at the end). Hamlet, (DoL,DoH,DoW can team up can do battle content.) Class Guild Shops. (You can play your job and earn Job Points where you could spend at the guild shop. Could work more so for DoH & DoL classes though. Like with XI you could buy HQ crafting crystals with guild points. Its kinda like the red scrips system we have now, but earning those points aren't locked based on your DoH.) 8 Man dungeons endgame content- (Like Savage but with a dungeon.) Sancation Levequests, (You do normal levequests and you get Sancation leve points. Once you have like 10-30 depending on the leve. You do it and its like a endgame levequest where there is awesome loot at the end.) Garlean evasions- (Basically like a Fate on the map with a boss mob that drops loot for the party that kills it. Basically a Garlean army evades a spot on the map.) Job quests- (That required a party to kill a boss. 1.20 had a DRG storyline where it basically was a shorter version of 3.1-3.3.) https://youtu.be/NPAHZ4kP1PY?t=109

Those textures look so much better. ; ;

Good question to ask now is how well could todays PC's & PS4 could of run 1.20b if it was still around?
Its probably on a poor engine which is whats causing alot of the problems with the game in the first place.

[Zeyphr_Darkshadow]

This should be a meme at this point lel.

[Beetle]

This should be a meme at this point lel.

(Basically forget the people that stayed around and supported them through 1.0-1.23b)
(Grind, Grind,Grind reset progress is fun.)
(HW content was pretty meh, didn't really amaze.)
(Your roots? Bomberman)