I guess it's time

[Velhart]

You never answered my question.... no answer? Maybe not many is the answer

So on taking content and ideas from XI wouldn't work based on your opinion. Ok. I don't think that they should copy and paste, but ideas are good enough.

It is still hilarious that multiple times you have to be told I am not 100% against ideas from FFXI. But go ahead and keep showing off that wonderful reading comprehension of yours.

Id like to hear why things like salvage, abjurations (gear drop+crafted item= new piece of gear), forced spawned nms, and a delayed gratification wouldn't work?

If you actually read (ohh wait the reading comprehension thing, sorry), I said I am for content similar to Salvage, which is something I believe that Palace of the Dead is similar to. Delayed gratification. You know, the same people preach that people get bored easily and leave yet also preach that delayed gratification would be a working system for this game. I ask several times how delayed gratification is the solution to that? Why can't anyone give any proper answer or proof without saying "well it worked in FFXI" That is not proof.

Creating content that doesn't use the duty finder is bad?

Depends on what it is. Aquapolis does not use DF and works just fine.

Battle combat that requires you to work together(skillchain type of interaction) is not a good idea?

For this game in particular? Yes. The combat is not built for it, especially with how the game is set up to be very mechanic heavy fights.

Jobs and classes with depth and flexibility are outdated too?

This game's depth in the job system is quite there. It just doesn't go into a convoluted state where specific actions are required for specific fights. It offers depth while being accessible. This in turn allows for bosses with stronger mechanics. I rather have a fun boss fight with strong mechanics than staring at my bar picking what elemental spell to use. That isn't fun. Also don't try to convince me the system has no depth when people even to this day constantly find ways to improve one's DPS or switches in rotation. Not to mention, on MCH alone I constantly have to alter my base rotation to make sure I am performing the mechanics and maximizing my DPS at the same time. So don't lie to me and say this game's battle has no depth. It just isn't convoluted.

gear variety is negative?

We have it already, you have multiple ways of getting multiple gear from different content. Sorry if you don't like how they do it, but it is there. If they want to make a gear set that has a set bonus similar to how lower level Grand Company gear works, I am all for it as long as it is done right and does not cause an imbalance.

The only reason I think anyone argues against XI ideas, is because they like being handed everything.

Really? Because I really want that ilvl245 gun from Savage and SE hasn't come to hand it to me on a silver platter yet. What gives SE?

[Braden]

snip

You shouldn't question my reading ability when you still can't answer a direct question.

If you're beating an entire patch of content immediately after its released. Thats instant gratification, similar to tomes are participation trophies. The means to have it right now. People give more value to things you earn, rather than just given. Its a very simple concept. Much like the jobs are a shell of what they could be. XI is the example of job flexibility. This game only has one stat and skill per job, very simple. XI blm for example had int, mab, enfeebling, dark, elemental, pdt, mdb, mnd etc. To be effective in XI you had to have multiple gear sets to be most efficient. Thats job depth. One skill may have a str modifier, while another may have dex, in the same job.

Aquapolis is one thing, compared to 15+ pieces of content XI had in the same shelf life. Also aquapolis doesn't drop relevant gear from what I've seen.

The mechanics are all the same from what I have experienced. Move out of orange, hide behid object, run into blob etc. Adding player to player interaction might hinder your optimal rotation, but it would add something different.

2 ways to get similar gear, all duty finder/instanced, is not variety.

[Velhart]

You shouldn't question my reading ability when you still can't answer a direct question.

And that question was?

If you're beating an entire patch of content immediately after its released. Thats instant gratification, similar to tomes are participation trophies. The means to have it right now. People give more value to things you earn, rather than just given. Its a very simple concept. Much like the jobs are a shell of what they could be. XI is the example of job flexibility. This game only has one stat and skill per job, very simple. XI blm for example had int, mab, enfeebling, dark, elemental, pdt, mdb, mnd etc. To be effective in XI you had to have multiple gear sets to be most efficient. Thats job depth. One skill may have a str modifier, while another may have dex, in the same job.

No that is complexity. Complexity does not equal depth. Not to mention FFXIV has several secondary stats to experiment with and properly allocate to get maximum efficiency. What you have there is being complex for the sake of it without depth added to it. I doubt people of this game will feel like carrying 5+ different staffs for simply an elemental spell or play the gear swapping game all together. Not with a game that focuses heavily on the content being where most of the depth lies. Even when I was deep into FFXI during it's prime, constantly switching between TP gear and STR gear was cumbersome and inventory killing.

Aquapolis is one thing, compared to 15+ pieces of content XI had in the same shelf life. Also aquapolis doesn't drop relevant gear from what I've seen.

Aquapolis main point is to earn you some money and materials. Materials and gil that can be used to make crafting gear that is good enough to make gear for the next raid tier crafting set, which is extremely desired and makes a major boost to the economy when it happens.

Also, for open world stuff I understand, but how does not having to go through DF for instanced content better? The difference is you take 2-3 minutes to go to the NPC to initiate it.

The mechanics are all the same from what I have experienced. Move out of orange, hide behid object, run into blob etc. Adding player to player interaction might hinder your optimal rotation, but it would add something different.

You must not raid if that is your mentality. If both my optimal rotation and the other DPS's rotation are both hindered to do one combined attack, then that sounds like a terrible idea. Especially with how severe DPS checks are on some turns. Needing to completely understand your job and the mechanics given before you are absolutely necessary or have fun dying.

2 ways to get similar gear, all duty finder/instanced, is not variety.

24-man content
Tomestone gear
Raid gear
Primals
Relic

These listed get you the gear needed to be between ilvl230-240, which is good enough to get you past any content the game offers.

Sorry if you believe the game is simply all about the spoils and rewards, but the mentality to me is getting the content done, and gear is simply a means to accomplish that. I only want the gun a lot so I have an advantage in DPS checks when engaging in 3.4's raid tier content. If your complaint is that there is not enough hardcore content, then you are absolutely right there does need to be more balance in midcore/hardcore, but FFXI's systems are not the solution.

Why do you want it, for the sake of showing off and say you got it? It'll be useless once 3.4 comes, is not needed for any savage turn clear either.

So exciting, people get their gear to unsheathe their weapon and go afk in Limsa/Idylshire for show off, i don't get it.

People should be happy they beat A8S not they got a useless weapon mostly with bad design that is worthless every 6 months and it not needed to clear any Savage turn.

Same as I said above, to gain an advantage in the next tier raid. Novelty of the item does not mean as much to me because I don't really care what outside of my friend circle thinks and I always AFK in the housing area.

[RobbieH]

Same as I said above, to gain an advantage in the next tier raid. Novelty of the item does not mean as much to me because I don't really care what outside of my friend circle thinks and I always AFK in the housing area.

The advantage is minimal, you don't need it to beat A9S, if you go for world first then i understand.

The biggest damage increase will come from the new crafted gear, that will really help.

[Lambadelta]

The advantage is minimal, you don't need it to beat A9S, if you go for world first then i understand.

The biggest damage increase will come from the new crafted gear, that will really help.

I don't understand why you even bother coming to this forum if everything is about long-term gains for you.

Why not go to another MMO if you hate how this game has been doing things for the last 3 years.

[Vantol]

I don't understand why you even bother coming to this forum if everything is about long-term gains for you.

Why not go to another MMO if you hate how this game has been doing things for the last 3 years.

Because there are no other fresh and big MMOs out there. Unfortunatly. If there were one, 90% of people I know who currently plays FFXIV, would drop it in a heartbeat.

[odintius]

I don't understand why you even bother coming to this forum if everything is about long-term gains for you.

Why not go to another MMO if you hate how this game has been doing things for the last 3 years.

Maybe because its the fact their doing the same thing over and over for the last 3yrs, that might be the problem for some it stale. Most mmo aren't full blown pure vertical progression aither and has elements of horizontal in them, this game use to have it BTW. Having pure horizontal people will quickly point out the problems with it, but pure vertical has its own share of flaws as well and people are pointing them out as well its a matter of finding a sweet spot of adding the two, but people tend to exaggerate there arguments.

[Velhart]

Maybe because its the fact their doing the same thing over and over for the last 3yrs, that might be the problem for some it stale. Most mmo aren't full blown pure vertical progression aither and has elements of horizontal in them, this game use to have it BTW. Having pure horizontal people will quickly point out the problems with it, but pure vertical has its own share of flaws as well and people are pointing them out as well its a matter of finding a sweet spot of adding the two, but people tend to exaggerate there arguments.

Doesn't horizontal make you do the same thing over and over for years? But you know instead...doesn't try to refresh the content? The horizontal enthusiasts try to argue that content becomes stale, but do not say why something that gets even more stale over time is the solution. Even during FFXI, it was an incredible breath of fresh air when ToAU came out, because I would finally be doing something that isn't Dynamis/Limbus/Sky/Sea all the time.

Also, we are currently in a horizontal patch right now. Even number raises the ilvl, odd number patch offers more variety in that ilvl range.

[HeavenlyArmed]

Same as I said above, to gain an advantage in the next tier raid. Novelty of the item does not mean as much to me because I don't really care what outside of my friend circle thinks and I always AFK in the housing area.

While I agree with most of what you said, you can't seriously think that you're really going to be using that i245 weapon much at all in the next raid tier. The patterns show that the new Warring Triad fight in 3.4 will drop an i250 weapon, and most groups will be farming those before doing much of final Alex Savage, if any of it at all. So at most it'll be an advantage for the first week, then you'll have the primal weapon and be using that to progress through the tier until you get the next Tome weapon. Is it really worth the effort for at most one week of actual competitive advantage?

[Velhart]

While I agree with most of what you said, you can't seriously think that you're really going to be using that i245 weapon much at all in the next raid tier. The patterns show that the new Warring Triad fight in 3.4 will drop an i250 weapon, and most groups will be farming those before doing much of final Alex Savage, if any of it at all. So at most it'll be an advantage for the first week, then you'll have the primal weapon and be using that to progress through the tier until you get the next Tome weapon. Is it really worth the effort for at most one week of actual competitive advantage?

To most hardcore raiders aiming for server/world first? Absolutely. You don't have time to go fight a primal and that weapon along with new crafted gear is pretty essential to getting those pushes in. It may not be a strong case for those who do plan on tackling the primal first then raids, but even then on a midcore level if you are fighting the primal first, those ilvl245 weapons are going to help take it down a bit faster.

If the argument people want to bring which I am not sure if it is relevant to the general topic on hand is if the highest current weapon in the game is more novelty than usefulness. I think that is a more subjective, person by person basis type of thing. This is something however that is a thing in all MMO's or games with ranking weapons in general. "Okay I got the best thing in the game, so what now?"

A Video for my Ex-FFXI Brothers and Sisters.

*InB4somesaysnostalgia*

You know, all that stuff is still there. Not like anyone took it from you.