Lore Incentive Is Ruining Duty Roulette

[FinaSel]

Wow this thread got really long really fast. Just read the first two pages, so I don't know if someone suggested this or not yet but, here is the advice I would give:
I would suggest finding a party with the Party Finder tool instead of the Dungeon Finder tool.
Why?
1.) You can clearly state in the description that you are still learning your healing roll and would like to take it slow.

2.) You will only get people who are willing to assist you. If someone is taking time out of their day to help someone just go through a dungeon to learn their role, you can bet they are a nice person and could become a great friend in the future.

3.) You'll only be paired with people from your server. A good way to build a network and make friends.

4.) You'll likely get other people who are new at their jobs too, who want to learn as well. You can take it slow together.

Just two days ago I was waiting for a node to pop and was looking at the Party Finder. I saw a person who wanted to run Sastasha for the first time as a tank.
They were still missing a healer. I have a level 60 WHM and no other healer jobs right now, so there was really zero material benefit for me to enter the dungeon.
But I did just to help out. Figured it's a good way to build a wider network of friends.

Of course the tank was slow because he was new. But no one in the party cared because everyone who joined already knew it would be that way. Everyone was very supportive and helped the tank a lot.

[Welsper59]

I feel like having the minimum expectation out of the player base is why this games in a bit of a tizzy with midcore content... Dungeons aren't really supposed to be relaxing, why would they be? I personally mean this in the most respectful way possible, but you're pandering to the declining skill of the player base which further dichotomizes bad players from everyone else, that being a well noted issue among of FF14.

They simply don't get better because they don't have to. Yes, sure maybe do a test pull to see that they can handle a couple packs, but if it's too stressful of a situation, then perhaps a DPS roll would be more suited to their state of mind. I don't get why you'd want to go into a monster filled dungeon without the elevated stress. Long story short is that the only people who can make the lowest denominator any better is the rest of the playerbase, because SE has pretty much gone this long making the game doable with a regen.

This is by no means a statement to chew out terrible players, merely to give them a firm helping hand instead of a blanket and bottle. People are capable of getting better, they're not babies ;_;

It frustrates me that a lot of modern gaming (MMO's in particular) has become about just getting it done, instead of failing and getting better.

I agree. I absolutely agree that part of the reason that midcore is so unusually placed/non-existent here is because of that minimum expectation. You (and many others) are overlooking (or just refusing to accept) the fact that it's exactly how it is here. Regardless of what you or I might say about wanting a higher degree of caliber of player/perspective to be the expectation, the fact is that the game does not require it. With where we are now, you are literally forcing your unnecessary expectations upon the players that the game caters to in that content. They are not objectively wrong here, assuming it does not actually prevent success, you are. The way the game is designed is proof of that.

The only way to remove terrible, or realistically to dramatically reduce the odds of it, is to increase difficulty substantially on almost everything. There needs to be unforgiving mechanics introduced, designed to weed out the bad habits/players. A single mistake or bad rotation play = wipe, sort of thing. The only reason why I mention such difficulty is because anything less allows for bad habits to exist. People being carried is a very big possibility the more forgiving something is. If people want to experience the game, they need to become better. That's the form of motivation that makes good players. On the other hand, it's also not much of a motivation for the bad/lazy players to continue playing, which to be honest, really will be a significant loss with such difficulty and dedication requirements. There's no real in-between here on the matter of player perspective these days.

They can absolutely introduce midcore tier type of content... and they kind of have already. Extreme fights and such really aren't that much of a faceroll for the average player to clear for the first time. Dungeons here, however, are designed for a group to take part and realistically accomplish with low or minimal skill. That's just how it is here. Both good and bad players are allowed to get to the point they need to be to do group content. Outside of lynch mobbing and extreme harassment, you're not going to remove or motivate bad players from either quitting or getting better. A select few may listen, but the majority will simply play the way they want.

You're right in that we're not babies. We are capable of getting better, should we choose to. That choice however is something you cannot force upon someone. The only ones who can, without harassment, are the devs. If the devs choose not to, then who's really in the wrong here?

Edit: forgot to add this in, but regarding the elevated stress part, it's because that's being unnecessarily forced upon them by another player. One that, in the case of the OP, is just a d-bag that could not give less of a crap about what the OP said. That player will force his/her expectations upon the OP to the point that it causes not just a slowdown from said d-bags expected time spent, but also adds far more frustration to everyone involved (possible wipes). That is the primary difference. The OP's way of doing things may slow down the expected norm, but it doesn't truly affect it negatively. Said tank however, absolutely affects it negatively. Now, if the game was designed to do that as a requirement/necessity, then yeah, OP gotta just git gud.

[MeiUshu]

@Welsper

If SE does what you suggest, we will high end so called super genius players come to the board and speak how hard it is to beat the content....in short no matter how hard or what not you make the fight there will always be those that complain

[Crysten]

If the OP even remotely decided to try pulling the "I'm just going to let you die" card in that situation you'd be vote dismissed by me faster than you can cast Aspected Benefic.

There are two issues in that situation: one, you're a dickhead or two, you're terrible.

Meeting any of the above two criteria means I don't have a problem in ruining your day.

[Altanas]

I learnt how to play my jobs better simply because of parties pushing everyone to their limits.

Going slowly in low level dungeons does not help new players

[Selsix]

Just an FYI, letting your tank die because he didn't wait for you to cast Stoneskin is behavior you can be punished for. You are in the wrong here if you do this.

[AlphaSonic]

All this drama because you can't swiftcast protect. Seriously?

[Alaltus]

In my experience the best place for learning is in a consistent group of players e.g linkshell/free company where players get to know each other and have a some social currency between one another. I'm not sure if my free company is a particularly good example in it's current state but since 2.0/2.1 when i left and now i haven't seen or felt much incentive of any kind for members to help one another to catch up.

[LaylaTsarra]

All this drama because you can't swiftcast protect. Seriously?

I swiftcast stoneskin, can't do both at the spawn point. What amazes me is that there are people here who defend the tank running off without buffs. Why is that and why is it so important for the tank to leave so fast, it's only a matter of a few seconds. These are the same types who don't wait for everyone before puling a boss in duties like Void and so on.

[seraseth]

Why is that and why is it so important for the tank to leave so fast, it's only a matter of a few seconds.

I know right? The very first thing that's going to happen in every single duty when the wall comes down is healer casting protect. Everyone should be expecting it and wait the few seconds for it. No one needs to bolt the very second the wall drops, 10 seconds isn't going to hurt anyone. Say hi.