Early Pulling - Is it wrong?

[MomomiMomi]

Isn't it a violation of the TOS to deliberately do something to interfere with other player's enjoyment of the game. Especially if other people have already TOLD him that he is doing just that and his response is he is doing it for "fun".

Let me try to put this into a way that makes sense. I can deliberately buy a house in this game, just for fun, and that could interfere with the enjoyment of the game of another player.

Is me buying the house a violation of the ToS?

[FinaSel]

Let me try to put this into a way that makes sense. I can deliberately buy a house in this game, just for fun, and that could interfere with the enjoyment of the game of another player.

Is me buying the house a violation of the ToS?

If you are buying a house with the specific purpose of making others angry because that is fun for you, then I would classify it as such if I were a GM.
Also, there is a pretty big difference between buying a house once and doing an action repeatedly...over and over again...
If you were buying all of the houses every time one was available, like it seems like this guy is doing with hunts to prevent others from getting them, wouldn't you classify that as deliberately interfering with other's enjoyment?
This person didn't just do this with 1 hunt one time. It appears like he is doing it all the time.

I think you missed a key point of my post. "To deliberately do something to interfere with other player's enjoyment".

Not "that could interfere with the enjoyment" as you said in your post. Something that "could interfere" and "doing something TO interfere" are two completely different things.

Another person who is in that server said they asked the person to stop and asked why they were doing that. That poster said the person said they were "doing it for fun".
I don't remember the original post because it was a few pages back.

[Cakekizyy]

If you are buying a house with the specific purpose of making others angry because that is fun for you, then I would classify it as such if I were a GM.

I think you missed a key point of my post. "To deliberately do something to interfere with other player's enjoyment".

Not "that could interfere with the enjoyment" as you said in your post. Something that "could interfere" and "doing something TO interfere" are two completely different things.

I would say think intention is irrelevant if the act itself is not against rules.

[FinaSel]

I would say think intention is irrelevant if the act itself is not against rules.

The act of interfering with other's enjoyment of the game IS against the rules.

Directly from the EULA:
"Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players"

[ElHeggunte]

Let me try to put this into a way that makes sense. I can deliberately buy a house in this game, just for fun, and that could interfere with the enjoyment of the game of another player.

Is me buying the house a violation of the ToS?

It would be against the ToS if you bought the house for the specific purpose of screwing someone else out of one. For example, let's say there's a player you didn't like named Milli Vanilli. One day you hear through the grapevine that he wants to buy the last available housing plot left on your server so you rush over and buy the plot out from under his nose so that he can't have it. You don't actually care about the plot, you just care about him not having it and that's the only reason you bought it. Buying the plot isn't against the ToS, but buying it with the sole purpose of keeping it from someone else could be considered griefing and that is against the ToS.

I would say think intention is irrelevant if the act itself is not against rules.

Intent is very relevant regardless of what the rules are. For example, there's no rule saying that I''m required to perform fight mechanics correctly, but if I'm going out of my way to do them wrong in order to wipe the raid I could be punished for it if someone reported me. The act of doing the mechanics wrong isn't against the rules, but doing it wrong for the sole purpose of fucking with my group is; I'm not in trouble for my actions, I'm in trouble for the intent behind my actions. "Early" pulling is no different. There's nothing textbook wrong with pulling a hunt whenever you want, but if you're pulling early for the sole purpose of giving other people a hard time and they can prove it you can be reported and punished for it.

[MomomiMomi]

If you are buying a house with the specific purpose of making others angry because that is fun for you, then I would classify it as such if I were a GM.

I think you missed a key point of my post. "To deliberately do something to interfere with other player's enjoyment".

Not "that could interfere with the enjoyment" as you said in your post. Something that "could interfere" and "doing something TO interfere" are two completely different things.

But he said he was doing it for fun. Not to interfere. Fun, as in the reason we play this game.

When I go after a hunt, it's usually for fun, yes.

I assume you're just being a troll, but you do realize that when you do some thing that ticks many people off and reply, "It was for fun, it's just a game bro." You are admitting that you're doing it on purpose, and will have a negative effect.

That wasn't the reply. The reply was "fun." Anything more is reading into what he said.

[Kerii]

But he said he was doing it for fun. Not to interfere. Fun, as in the reason we play this game.

When I go after a hunt, it's usually for fun, yes.

I assume you're just being a troll, but you do realize that when you do some thing that ticks many people off and reply, "It was for fun, it's just a game bro." You are admitting that you're doing it on purpose, and will have a negative effect.

[FinaSel]

When I go after a hunt, it's usually for fun, yes.

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point. Again.
What he is doing for fun isn't "going after a hunt".
What is he doing for fun is pulling the mob immediately before anyone else (except maybe his LS or FC) has the opportunity to get it.

This was already made clear in several posts by various people in this thread.

[Momita]

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point. Again.
What he is doing for fun isn't "going after a hunt".
What is he doing for fun is pulling the mob immediately before anyone else (except maybe his LS or FC) has the opportunity to get it.

This was already made clear in several posts by various people in this thread.

I've reached the Hunt, my party is here, my friends is here... who i have to wait? my grandma?
Early pull is the excuse for who wanna stay afk, while someone is hunting.

If the puller reached the hunt, then u have the same time for reach it.. if u can't reach in time, then u aren't doing hunt, just leeching ^^

my 2 cents.

[Brian_]

Let me try to put this into a way that makes sense. I can deliberately buy a house in this game, just for fun, and that could interfere with the enjoyment of the game of another player.

Is me buying the house a violation of the ToS?

I don't think you have any argument. Numerous GMs and even Yoshida himself have clarified their stance on griefing over and over again.

Just recently they've said that reselling a house for an exorbitant mark-up is not okay. Previously GMs have said that doing so is an abuse of the existing system and a violation of the ToS.

If you haven't realized, their ToS is purposefully vague so that it can be applied to these situations.

It's the same as parsing. Yoshida has said that they have no problem with it as long as it's not used for harassment.

Again, they trust that players are civil in their behavior. Even if what you're doing falls into the gray-zone of legality, as long as it does not cross that line of civility, they generally let players handle it themselves.