Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[zosia]

How is having items with something like "heal potency up" different from just having more mind? It's exactly the same thing so again nothing has changed."Oh yeah DRG you need Spikes Armband of Piercing because it increases your damage"
"Oh yeah BRD you need Sirens Ring of Screehing because it makes your song's drain less MP"

etc

Because you are picking an arbitrary example, one that suits your argument. There could be effects like, "Gain 5% mana back from your heals." Cherry picking the more boring example does not really prove your point.

So if there is pre-ordained setups made by the community where is the choice people always talk about like it's the answer to everyones prayers? How is it going to change the way DRG plays (for example)? You are still going to be doing the same thing as a DRG is right now just with what amounts to basically an glamour (but instead a glamour of stats).

It's all just an illusion but this illusion is intrinsically toxic to MMO communities and therfore - Do not want at all.

So these minor things people are saying they want do not change a thing unless there is a complete overhaul of the game mechanically so again - Do not want at all.

Even with preset builds, people choose to tailor their playing experience around the flavors of choice they like. For example, the same argument you made has always been used against talents in wow. Wow talents give you a bit more choice because most of the choices are minor. In most instances, it's only the final few talents that sort of force your hand with what builds you are using.

Also, why is the illusion of choice toxic to MMOs? That seems like a pretty brash statement without backing it up.

Also, we already have gear effects and set bonuses, go check your GC vendor before you assume we need some game overhaul to add gear depth.

How about you instead you explain how those stats will actually affect gameplay instead of everyone dodging the question? Because you are saying it should affect mine since such changes will effect everyone. It's one far simpler to answer to the one you have just asked and is relevent to this actual game not ones of yesteryear. Neither am I interested in looking back with rose tinted glasses and saying "things where so much better back in the day". One I was a teenager with far more time on my hands and two I'm interested in the now.

If there is a decent answer I might then agree if there isn't then I probably won't. The fact no-one has answered it does nothing to change my mind (something I am quite happy to do).

We only need to turn our eyes to WoW to see that gear sets and horizontal progression don't cause toxicity, it does not cause the sky to fall, and the last I checked their servers did not spontaneously combust. People like set bonuses. People like weapons with unique effects. It has always been well received in other MMO's.

There, I provided you a game where gear depth accomplishes a lot of positives in respect to game play and player motivation. Where is your example of an MMO tragically hurt by more interesting gear options?

It's one thing to be skeptical. It's another thing to deny suggestions based upon your "nature".

QFTx10000

No one in favor of horizontal progression has answered this yet. What to do when all you get every patch are just sidegrades instead of upgrades and you are already happy with what you have? A change that supposedly makes pve interesting actually gives us less reason to do content and leaves us nothing but vanity to chase.

The only rewards in this game are vanity. You only need to wait for the latest savage patch, buy the latest crafted gear, meld it and your effectively close to the ilvl cap. The gear treadmill in this game is already in such a state that content like Niddhog EX goes live with essentially vanity rewards.

If SE did horizontal progression like WoW, I would love it. Imagine if the niddhog weapons, being 235, actually had weapon effects and in the right hands those effects would make the weapons effectively ilvl 240/245 performance wise. That would be amazing.