Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[DPZ2]

... a game people log into for a couple hours here and there to do arbitrary tasks. ... not return until the team drops this dumb vertical progression and add more interesting stats that alter gameplay... no longer rewards longtime players for pouring hours into it...Glamour serves a very blatant and superficial purpose.

Also: "We need a change to Itemization, gameplay mechanics, and difficulty. We're burnt out and screaming on the inside. Please listen to the voice of the other half"

Was there ever a time - from Beta through today - when the game was fun for you? Exciting? Immersive? Worthy of hours of investment?

Were you new to the MMO experience then? Running away from another MMO that bored you? Trying something new?

Do you think the developers are really going to be able to change the game enough to bring back that initial thrill you experienced when you logged on 6 years ago? Do you think you absolutely will not become 'burnt out and screaming on the inside' six months after the requested changes hit and they are no longer new?

The frustration is real. I can read it in the lines you wrote.

Sadly, a solution isn't going to be as easy to implement as you may believe. Games can't change radically without totally erasing the past -- the things you fondly remember will no longer be experienced by a new generation of players.

That's why new games get created. That's why FFXIV isn't FFXI with updated graphics. That's why people remember another MMO so fondly that they attempt to recreate the original era of the game, warts and all, because it was fun .

The only thing I will pass along is "Have fun with what you have, if you can. Express your desires, but know they can not be accommodated immediately. Test other waters."

[Zadist]

I love to read these threads because the people who are posting "Omg this outfit is soooo cute glamorzzzzz :3" go 0 to 100 reaaaal quick and show up with torches and pitchforks when someone comes to the forums to post their personal opinions on why they are bored and what they think could help. BUUURN THE WITCH!!!

[HeavenlyArmed]

It just goes right over your head huh? It's not me who's asking to overhaul the way things are (and is why the game is sucessful) and change it to something it never was.

Not a jab at FFXI per say more like basic experience that can be applied to every single MMO you are saying this one should emulate... Since you yourself applied it to FFXI you can consider it relevent to the argument.

No it doesn't in virtual games because it always amounts to nothing and it's not me who has been unable to adapt to the changing game market. You are stuck a decade ago it seems.



Oh so changing gear and having weapon grinds stay the way they are constantly (because they are "relevent" all the time), having to get multiple amounts of armour and weapons to suit different senarios etc isn't going to force people to gind all this stuff out? Yeah I see how that makes sense /s.

You are using a strawman and zero idea my preference in regards to difficulty. Boss difficulty and forced grind is not even remotly the same thing if anyone is being hyperbolic it is yourself - "not everyone wants to play the final fantasy edition of club penguin"... Really -_-

No one is even necessarily asking for a complete overhaul to anything. I've already explained how it would be very easy for SE to make some small changes and add a few small rewards that would go a long way to helping ease he problems people like the OP are experiencing. The examples you give aren't the only way this can work, and the fact that you absolutely have to attack the most extreme position possible on this rather than even trying to hear out what people's suggestions are shows that you don't really have a good argument to make in the first place.

This entire thread just sounds like an "I'm an entitled little shi*te, give me everything on a silver platter..." kinda thread.

If you arent enjoying yourself here, then find a new game. That by no uncertain terms means that SE is alienating you. The entire premise behind XIV has always been to remain fair to all. Everyone regardless of playtime or style, can remain relevant. Those who have more time to play actually do come out with more things achieved than those who dont, it just depends on how they choose to use that time. If your playing every day all day and only doing battle content, well no wonder you're burned out. There is way more than just raiding/battles out there. If you've no interest in the other content then that not the fault of SE or others. Find another game to fill the void. Otherwise, maybe try placing yourself in various other contents, like crafting, gathering, gardening, hunts, etc. There's so much stuff to do I am usually wishing I had more time to do it...

As for the OP's stance on wanting horizontal progression, Yoshi-P stated why they didnt want to do this, because of the negative impacts it had with XI. But if you want your Horizontal progression, please, go play XI.

My below response basically works for this.

Okay, I missed something. You can cut the attitude.

Nonetheless, we've now circled back to "what purpose does this serve?" You won't be discriminated against for being slightly below optimal, but you will be told what the best options are. Not choosing them at that point is you simply being stubborn for no reason other than to be unique. An example would be a tank wanting to meld Parry on their raid gear because they like the potential mitigation. It's passable in most content, but why would you do it once you know Crit/Det are better? The same applies to a buff on a weapon.

Yes, but we're still arguing optimization. People will always pick the best option once they know which it is. That doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't add an effect to weapons for some bit of flavor. It does, however, mean people will inevitably gravitate to whatever the community deems the best weapon.

I had the attitude to begin with because you're being the textbook definition of obtuse about this. Even in terms of a more moderate stance, one that asks for things to be changed in such a way that harm cannot possibly be done, you still feel the need to argue against it because you don't feel that it'd be worth anything, despite plenty of people telling you it'd be worth something to them. Do you have full BiS? No? But why not? Everyone says that set is the best thing for you to have, why don't you have it?! Do you see the problem with your argument yet?

Yeah, exclusivity is one of the many reasons that not everyone will gravitate 100% towards what the community deems "the best". There will also be some people who don't like how it feels to play with that certain bonus, who can instead choose the very slightly less optimal set. Will those people ever get into a world first guild? Probably not, but they don't want to anyway. The point about flavour is just that we want there to be some flavour at all. We've been fed the same thing for so long that anything we could once taste in it has long since been adjusted to and now it just seems bland. But you argue against trying a different spice because... you don't think it'll help unless we use so many different spices that we may as well be tearing up the original recipe, and then most people won't like it anyway? All we want is for SE to try giving us a new flavour. Why can't we have that?

[Drkdays]

Doesn't VA and WC count as horizontal content in any case. It does exist, just not tons of it.

[Marcellus_Cassius]

I'm the complete opposite, I'm burned out from all the non battle related stuff that I haven't even unlocked the new dungeons and I've been playing hardcore since 3.3 popped. There's more stuff to do, but you have to build your routine.

[Altanas]

Its probably a good idea to also look at this from the view of reviewers like IGN, new players, or prospective returning players.

When 4.0 hits reviewers will highlight all of the following:

• that it's the "same old with a fresh coat of paint".
• that they perhaps forgave 3.0 because of the lack of an engaging MMO market at the time.
• Existing players may have also forgiven 3.0 because of the hook left at the end of 2.5. but that hook quickly fizzled out.
• everyone walked into 3.0 with a lot of comments that there were no new gameplay systems at all other than flight.
• the expansion will most likely be advertised in a disconcerting way. It would not be advertised as an expansion with new game features. It will be advertised as an attempt to grab fresh blood by urging them to join and instantly create a high level character to jump straight into the expansion content. I don't know about you guys, but all other games that advertise in that fashion I instantly ignore and click over.
• reviewers will most likely brand 4.0 as a money grab more so than the usual expansion. That would be disastrous in a review to even let the reviewer take such an attitude. They will say once you've paid to jump to high level you will end up stuck in an archaic and patronising gameplay system with predictable patches.

Deep down the established players know that more is needed, not just for themselves but also for fresh blood to the game. They also know WHAT is actually needed, because well they actually play the game. We don't want the game to bomb, but a lot of players defending SE just don't seem to realise this. The Devs greatest fault is that it's not just the community who are calling them out on boredom, the reviewers in their E3 interviews already noted the staleness of the game given their very specific questions. A lot of them are probably already writing their 4.0 reviews with blanks just for the name of the expansion...

[HeavenlyArmed]

Doesn't VA and WC count as horizontal content in any case. It does exist, just not tons of it.

Technically, yes. However, those don't provide anything extra to be interesting in terms of being horizontal progression, and one of them didn't even provide anything interesting in terms of being content.

Its probably a good idea to also look at this from the view of reviewers like IGN, new players, or prospective returning players.

When 4.0 hits reviewers will highlight all of the following:

• that it's the "same old with a fresh coat of paint".
• that they perhaps forgave 3.0 because of the lack of an engaging MMO market at the time.
• Existing players may have also forgiven 3.0 because of the hook left at the end of 2.5. but that hook quickly fizzled out.
• everyone walked into 3.0 with a lot of comments that there were no new gameplay systems at all other than flight.
• the expansion will most likely be advertised in a disconcerting way. It would not be advertised as an expansion with new game features. It will be advertised as an attempt to grab fresh blood by urging them to join and instantly create a high level character to jump straight into the expansion content. I don't know about you guys, but all other games that advertise in that fashion I instantly ignore and click over.
• reviewers will most likely brand 4.0 as a money grab more so than the usual expansion. That would be disastrous in a review to even let the reviewer take such an attitude. They will say once you've paid to jump to high level you will end up stuck in an archaic and patronising gameplay system with predictable patches.

Deep down the established players know that more is needed, not just for themselves but also for fresh blood to the game. They also know WHAT is actually needed, because well they actually play the game. We don't want the game to bomb, but a lot of players defending SE just don't seem to realise this. The Devs greatest fault is that it's not just the community who are calling them out on boredom, the reviewers in their E3 interviews already noted the staleness of the game given their very specific questions. A lot of them are probably already writing their 4.0 reviews with blanks just for the name of the expansion...

And the worst part? That question existed on the forums. The very question asking them to address this was present on the forum thread where E3 Live Letter questions were to be asked. And how did that go? Not only was it not asked, but the players didn't even seem to care. The question was the second lowest in likes of all the questions I asked in that thread. They had the chance to address this very real concern in front of a very large audience. And what did we get instead? Flying Slepnir, sleep changepose and more housing info that no one should care even slightly about. At E3. The big Live Letter with likely the biggest audience, and to draw them in we got glamour. At least the interviews that were done touched on some things that were a little bit more relevant, but that Live Letter was a gigantic disappointment for anyone hoping for even the slightest bit of substance. At least the reaction to instant leveling potions has been so negative that those probably won't end up happening, but that doesn't make it any less infuriating that they wasted such a good opportunity to maybe pique people's interests.

[Seraphix2407]

Ok so now add ontop of that having to get multiple armour sets for the content you are doing at the moment and holding onto them forever incase they "are relevent". Now got get 5 different weapons, 10 different rings etc. Then take a break come back and see how easy it is to catch up to do that content again.

And this is just for one of the jobs you might enjoy playing[.

I play DRG, sch and war, and before 3.3 was out all of them was over 228. FFXI had setups you could use before you had the real end game gear,they can easily do it in this game too.
More content = more ways to get gear = different type of content so catch up gear is easier to obtain. The way it is, is simply boring and too linear, they should add more options.

[Zadist]

I really can't wrap my head around why the "casual crowd" is so against $E adding more depth to the game. If at 4.0 there is a piece of gear that has healing potency % up on it how does this affect the "glamor true endgame"? If they made a system with spawnabe NMs that could be fought with an alliance and seen in level tiers that can go beyond the difficulty of the current raid does that mean Ms McFluffyqote can't glamor her bikini on and sit in the fc house and have a tea party? You would be able to run DF dungeons and the catch up 24 man or anything else for that matter just fine without having a bis gear piece. Glamor peepz and casual players can play at their own pace and keep up with current non raid difficulty content and mid- hardcore players get a bit of spice to the gameplay. I don't see how this is such a horrible concept?

[Underdog2204]

I really can't wrap my head around why the "casual crowd" is so against $E adding more depth to the game. If at 4.0 there is a piece of gear that has healing potency % up on it how does this affect the "glamor true endgame"? If they made a system with spawnabe NMs that could be fought with an alliance and seen in level tiers that can go beyond the difficulty of the current raid does that mean Ms McFluffyqote can't glamor her bikini on and sit in the fc house and have a tea party? You would be able to run DF dungeons and the catch up 24 man or anything else for that matter just fine without having a bis gear piece. Glamor peepz and casual players can play at their own pace and keep up with current non raid difficulty content and mid- hardcore players get a bit of spice to the gameplay. I don't see how this is such a horrible concept?

How is having items with something like "heal potency up" different from just having more mind? It's exactly the same thing so again nothing has changed.

"Oh yeah DRG you need Spikes Armband of Piercing because it increases your damage"
"Oh yeah BRD you need Sirens Ring of Screehing because it makes your song's drain less MP"

etc

I play DRG, sch and war, and before 3.3 was out all of them was over 228. FFXI had setups you could use before you had the real end game gear,they can easily do it in this game too.
More content = more ways to get gear = different type of content so catch up gear is easier to obtain. The way it is, is simply boring and too linear, they should add more options.

So if there is pre-ordained setups made by the community where is the choice people always talk about like it's the answer to everyones prayers? How is it going to change the way DRG plays (for example)? You are still going to be doing the same thing as a DRG is right now just with what amounts to basically an glamour (but instead a glamour of stats).

It's all just an illusion but this illusion is intrinsically toxic to MMO communities and therfore - Do not want at all.

So these minor things people are saying they want do not change a thing unless there is a complete overhaul of the game mechanically so again - Do not want at all.