Heavensword 3* Crafting Rotation and Macro

[Roth_Trailfinder]

I don't know what Ing and Ing 2 add to a given recipe. I do know that Innovation adds more than an additional stack of IQ would to your final Byregot's.

Innovation is 50% of your base (starting) Control. IQ is worth 20% per stack, of your base (starting) Control; and also increases BB's Efficiency. That Efficiency increase is why Innovation is worth less than 2.5 IQ stacks; but that Efficiency increase does not bring Innovation down to merely 1 IQ stack.

[Silverbane]

I do know that Innovation adds more than an additional stack of IQ would to your final Byregot's.

Innovation is 50% of your base (starting) Control. IQ is worth 20% per stack, of your base (starting) Control; and also increases BB's Efficiency.

Are you taking into account the quality increase you got you would get from the Touch that added the additional IQ stack? Normalizing to base gain = 1, for example:

I tried to solve the equations for quality increase and got:

for BT+GS+BB: quality increases by 3.88+ 1.16*IQ + 0.08*IQ^2.
for Inno+GS+BB: quality increases by 3+ IQ + 0.08*IQ^2.

wherein IQ is the number of IQ stacks at the start of the sequence.

If my equations are correct, BT+GS+BB is always better than Inno+GS+BB, if you have the durability for the former. Fooling around on the simulator seems to verify this.

[javid]

we've spoken about this before; if you're using maker's mark and extending the craft by several steps then you're making the likeliness of getting favorable conditions (good excellent) go up! This favorable condition likeliness goes hand and hand with "whistle while you work". For the cost of 36 cp and 1 step of makers mark ( so u can say its a total of 36+20/18~ 38* CP) you GAMBLE at getting at least 2 condition before your 33 plus rotation is finished.....in RETURN to get the BEST DURABILITY/CP skill (nym. wheel) in game.

Let's do the math on that again for those not convinced. Whistle stacks start at 11, each favorable condition reduces the stack by 1; each time your stack reaches a multiple of 3 (9 stacks or 6 stacks or 3 stacks) you gain access to the ability "satisfaction" (which gives you 15 cp and reduces whistle stack down by 1). So start from 11x whistle stacks, and after 2 favorable conditions your whistle stacks will reduce to 9x stacks which then gives you satisfaction; after using satisfaction you'll get the 15 cp and reduce the whistle stacks to 8x.


Nym. wheel costs 18 cp and returns durability according to the number of stacks remaining on whistle:

whistle stacks--------------------------- return on nym. wheel
11-9x --------------------------- 10 durability
8-4 x --------------------------- 20 durability
3-1x --------------------------- 30 durability

So what is the total cost of whistle & nym. wheel combo? First let's look at the AT LEAST 2 FAVORABLE CONDITIONS cost: you used 36 to activate whistle, u lose one use of flawless Syn. which we'll say cost 2 cp and you gain the 15 cp of satisfaction but potentially lose either another flawless touch for 2 cp or later in game potentially 1 use of steady hand II, 5 cp. So just so we use the worst numbers possible: that is +36 +2 -15 +5 +18 = 46 CP for 20 durability; thats 23cp/10 durability ....the next best skill to that is waste notII at 98CP/40 durability = 24.5 CP/10 dur (mine u thats waste not WITHOUT a SH2 before proc; and WN2 is the most inflexible skill in game).

Second, the Worst case scenario you do not gain the 2 favorable conditions requirement (very rare BUT POSSIBLE) you lose 36 CP, basically a second use of ing2 lost!!

Now let's consider the hassle to using these skills. Whistle, satisfaction, & nym wheel; 3 skills an extension of 3 steps at worst to your rotation and a potential lost of 36 cp (IF THE RARE CASE OF LESS THAN 2 FAVORABLE CONDITIONS OCCURS).

Now the benefits: best CP/durability access, very flexible, potentially extends the craft offering even more chances of favorable conditions, and Whistle @ multiples of 3* adds 50% to all progress skills (ex: rapid syn + 50% = 300% efficiency).

LASTLY if the craft is very important to you that it HQs you can force favorable conditions using Heart of the "Crafter"; cost 250 blue scripts for 10 uses; very cheap; and comes in handy for emergencies.

[Katlyna]

we've spoken about this before; if you're using maker's mark and extending the craft by several steps then you're making the likeliness of getting favorable conditions (good excellent) go up! This favorable condition likeliness goes hand and hand with "whistle while you work". For the cost of 36 cp and 1 step of makers mark

You are accurate, we are at the point where getting a return on whistling is not only likely but almost garenteed. The question comes does a crafter want to deal with a whistle based approach. That is the catch. Personally I'm not certain how I feel about doing whistling even when its optimal. There are a number of cludy issues I have with it. None the less I may give it a try this patch just for flavor. Maybe make a video of it for poops and giggles.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Are you taking into account the quality increase you got you would get from the Touch that added the additional IQ stack?

Nope. And the reason I am not is the "source" or "opportunity cost" that you get those 18 CP from. Typically, it is going to be from the conversion of a HT to a BT. 80% of the time you are going to have the Quality you are trying to factor for if you HT, as opposed to 100% of the time if you BT.

Of course, this ignores the possibility that you are converting HT not into a BT, but a PT. That would be the superior option, though the question of whether to use your last unreserved 18 CP on PT or Innovation should not come up very often at all.

[Silverbane]

[re: using 18CP for Inno vs. Touch, total quality improvement, I asked: Are you taking into account the quality increase you got you would get from the Touch that added the additional IQ stack?] Nope. And the reason I am not is the "source" or "opportunity cost" that you get those 18 CP from. Typically, it is going to be from the conversion of a HT to a BT. 80% of the time you are going to have the Quality you are trying to factor for if you HT, as opposed to 100% of the time if you BT.

That's true, but if the 100%-chance BT-GS-BB option will get me to 100% HQ chance (and it often does), obviously I will take that rather than taking a 20%-chance of getting the lower-yeilding fail-GC-Inno-BB.

Which is one fun thing about crafting IMO: the on the fly adaptation to how the rotation has gone so far. Macros are boring.

[Low_Roller]

With how long the sequences get trying to milk a good with Flawless Synthesis spam I can see certain sequences playing out. I macro'd the first steps but on a 40+ step synth a macro approach starts to feel like a Telltale game unfolding. There have been some nifty tricks people mentioned, like staggering Tot's, PT's in between sets, and throwing in a conditional finishing move that only activates on a baited good/excellent in order to avoid a poor condition on your BB.

[AsunaStrife]

May I ask which cross class skills are adviseable when not on gsm using this rotation?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found your google document. Seems like the best skill to leave out IF you want to use ToT is Reclaim, bit of a mess but what can you do.

[Katlyna]

With how long the sequences get trying to milk a good with Flawless Synthesis spam I can see certain sequences playing out. I macro'd the first steps but on a 40+ step synth a macro approach starts to feel like a Telltale game unfolding. There have been some nifty tricks people mentioned, like staggering Tot's, PT's in between sets, and throwing in a conditional finishing move that only activates on a baited good/excellent in order to avoid a poor condition on your BB.

You are right! There are all kinds of little tricks and adjustments you can make the improve your HQ odds slightly with this approach. And its great that people share them. Thanks all!

[MeoTwister5]

Tried out Rath's rotation today on some new 3.3 items. It looks very doable on an unmodified rotation however you might need to start with at least 1500-2000 quality if you want to hit 100% with a window of maybe 2 missed hasties.

In my experience you might want to reclaim if you miss 3 hasties if you really want 100% hq then just botch it unless you have a high starting quality. If you can get a ToT in to use an Inno at the end it might be enough to compensate bad RNG.