A samurai idea : going backwards

[Venur]

May I ask what your definition of a true DPS class is,

DPS class deal the damage while support class enhence the damage dealth. For balance sake most MMO will give lower DPS to class bringing buff/debuff since they enhance the raid total damage dealt.

Like you said the monk class just seems to be the only true damage dealing melee class and then everyone else is a tier 2 DPS with buffs. When I heard ninja I didn,t suspected it was a support class at first.

[Shurrikhan]

DPS class deal the damage while support class enhance the damage dealt. For balance sake most MMO will give lower DPS to class bringing buff/debuff since they enhance the raid total damage dealt.

Like you said the monk class just seems to be the only true damage dealing melee class and then everyone else is a tier 2 DPS with buffs. When I heard ninja I didn,t suspected it was a support class at first.

I get that. My only point is that even a Monk depends on a couple support features (Dragon Kick and Mantra) to be a good compositional choice, unless its gear, and therefore its slight dps lead, extends well beyond everyone else's. Ninja is the only dps who needs only to deal damage and rotate its bonus features, with only a faint consideration for composition (Trick Attack timings and Dancing Edge use) and locked out by no particular party makeup. Personally, that's more like what I'd like to see for Samurai. Because so far, that's really only NIN and WAR, each to their respective roles. A true DPS class tends to be more plain, will still be limited in burst to make up for its sustain, and will often have a harder time reaching optimal raid contribution (which will, still, be through support as well).

[Venur]

A true DPS class tends to be more plain, will still be limited in burst to make up for its sustain, and will often have a harder time reaching optimal raid contribution.

This is a numerical balance problem. A good MMO will balance its game around having a mix of pure DPS and DPS/Utility beeing the optimal set-up. If your best raid/group composition skip pure DPS class and just stack support one, you have a problem.

So I can see why some prefer their dps classes to be pure dps. It's much easier to qualify a pure dps with hard numbers.

I've played support class in MMO for about 10 years then I moved to the tank role for a little over 5 years. For various reasons I'm in the mood to play something else. I don't really care about toping the DPS parse but I'm just tired to help other poeple toping it.

I just find it weird that monks are left beeing the only one without a real utility so they must be entitled the best DPS.

[Ryaz]

I've played support class in MMO for about 10 years then I moved to the tank role for a little over 5 years. For various reasons I'm in the mood to play something else. I don't really care about toping the DPS parse but I'm just tired to help other poeple toping it.

I just find it weird that monks are left beeing the only one without a real utility so they must be entitled the best DPS.

Honestly, I think it's time (whenever the new expansion comes out) to bite the bullet and actually make a support role. They're too attached to the Holy trinity. I can't see a class like Red Mage falling into anything but that category without completely removing what makes the class iconic-- the mix of melee, damage spells and support spells. They'd end up as glorified healers or something again like they were in FFXI.

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly, I think it's time (whenever the new expansion comes out) to bite the bullet and actually make a support role. They're too attached to the Holy trinity. I can't see a class like Red Mage falling into anything but that category without completely removing what makes the class iconic-- the mix of melee, damage spells and support spells. They'd end up as glorified healers or something again like they were in FFXI.

Though at the same time, the Red Mage would be the best excuse by which to fracture that trinity enough to give us more options and get us out of certain stale gameplay molds.

[Ryaz]

Agreed. I wouldn't even mind if they want to introduce Samurai as a DPS class and then two support classes next expansion-- like Red Mage and Dancer.

[Venur]

Honestly, I think it's time (whenever the new expansion comes out) to bite the bullet and actually make a support role.

Would be nice, something like what rift do (they save a spot for a support role in dungeon queue) or alone the line of the evrquest franchise (they don,t have a random queue but some class are clearly tagged as heavy support and average support in their class deffinition). Basicaly DPS tier are spllited from pure DPS, medium support, heavy support, tank then healer.

Red mage would fit nicely in the support spot.

[Ryaz]

You see, I don't mind giving up some damage as long as it means I'm boosting others and it's noticeable, especially when I'm bringing unique abilities others don't have. When MCH first came out, I was a bit bummed that our utility skills really felt limited for a support class. Most of them are of use only in progression groups and are lacking for other content. I just came back after 1/2 a year so I'm trying to figure what's changed, though.

So I can see why some prefer their dps classes to be pure dps. It's much easier to qualify a pure dps with hard numbers. You can look at a parser and see that they topped the DPS chart. It's much harder to do that with a support DPS where you not only have to look at their numbers, but also any extra damage they bring to their team mates and any support they bring to tanks and healers. And with a community that's all about numbers, it can be frustrating as a support class, believe me. I remember Bahamut Ex all too well and the MCH hate.

Personally, I think SE needs to learn a bit about what makes good support outside of being an MP battery, but that could just be me.