Give Tanks Tank Stance at Level 15

[Jpec07]

If they're already doing this, then what?

Then they won't have any problems.

[SyzzleSpark]

If they're already doing this, then what?

Then its highly probable that they don't know what they are doing or do not have the proper party awareness to understand why aggro problems keep happening to them in dungeons and what they can do to stop it.

EDIT - or they're not having any problems period, as jpec said. Posts like this don't get made b/c people aren't having problems though.

[Mattelot]

Then they won't have any problems.

How do you know this?

Then its highly probable that they don't know what they are doing or do not have the proper party awareness to understand why aggro problems keep happening to them in dungeons and what they can do to stop it.

EDIT - or they're not having any problems period, as jpec said. Posts like this don't get made b/c people aren't having problems though.

That's where mistake-proofing comes into play.

[winsock]

That's where mistake-proofing comes into play.

The penalty for the tank not having good threat at this level is pretty much the same as a DPS not having good DPS at this level.

Should mistake-proofing be added to DPS as well?
Should new players be allowed to perform poorly?

[Lan_Mantear]

This request is moot. Each of the tank stances are job specific. So even if they lowered them to level 1, Gladiators and Marauders aren't going to see any benefit.

[Fynlar]

Lowbie tanking currently does not function properly against DPS that know what they're doing. When you can spam your hate combo on a single enemy (which is exactly what the Hall of the Novice instructs tanks to do against a single enemy, by the way) and still not be able to maintain hate -- something which *easily* happens prior to getting the 3rd part of the hate combo -- something is wrong with the system.

Granted, in lowbie dungeons this is unlikely to actually keep you from succeeding anyways. But for all the problems we have nowadays with not having enough tanks around for content, this sort of thing does not exactly encourage new tanks to keep playing the role.

This request is moot. Each of the tank stances are job specific. So even if they lowered them to level 1, Gladiators and Marauders aren't going to see any benefit.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway, apparently not to you) that by asking for an action to be reduced to level 15 it is inferred that they're implying that it should become a base class action instead of a job action, since jobs are not available until level 30...

[Judah_Brandt]

The implication that a low level DPS can out-produce the enmity of a Tank's combo, flash, overpower, or Unleash is mathematically inaccurate at best.

The only thing wrong with the system is your perception of it. There is a far better solution to the problem you perceive with this, one way better than baby-proofing the system and cheapening the game. Instruct them how to get better. See what I did there? I offered a solution that isn't terrible.

[Claymore65]

I mean, isn't the standard low level starting Tanking Technique for Paladin "Shield Lob ==> Flash ==> Flash ==> Savage Combo", mixing in Flash every once in a while? If you do that, have decent (i.e. white up to level gear), you shouldn't really have much trouble maintaining hate. At the very least I never did when I started. If a newbie tank isn't doing that, try and give them some advice instead.

There is another factor to consider though: Most players don't stay in the 15-30 range for very long. Just by doing MSQ alone you'll level through that very quickly. I do wholeheartedly agree that Paladin's should get Shield Oath before Sword Oath though.

[Alistaire]

No, low level tanks just need to buy vendor gear and actually read their skills.

Nothing in the flash tooltip indicates the threat build is based off your weapon damage and is about the same as a 610 potency hit would do for threat. They should just add "threat scales with weapon damage and prime stats".

[MistakeNot]

The implication that a low level DPS can out-produce the enmity of a Tank's combo, flash, overpower, or Unleash is mathematically inaccurate at best.

The only thing wrong with the system is your perception of it. There is a far better solution to the problem you perceive with this, one way better than baby-proofing the system and cheapening the game. Instruct them how to get better. See what I did there? I offered a solution that isn't terrible.

Who said anything about low level DPS? The problem is when a high level DPS with godd gear is involved. Even downscaled they can rip hate off a low-level tank, no matter how well the tank plays.
Oh, the tank may well be able to eventually re-gain aggro by spamming their enmity-building skills, but not before the mob in question is long dead. (And if you spam Flash/Overpower you will quickly run out of MP/TP anyway.)