is selling housing bannable?

[Zelas]

So the same would apply to run/pony sales, off MB sales over 1M gil, player casinos, and any other player created exchange.

But in the end there's a nice catch-all in the ToS, saying it's their game, they do what they want.

Again, similar but not entirely the same.
I don't condone selling runs, because I think it's a pretty stupid practice and promotes laziness, but at least, there, they're selling something. The person actually GETS the kill/drop/whatever, and if they don't, they have sufficient evidence they got double-crossed (through screenshots, chatlogs, etc.).

For housing, you're not paying the player for anything at all other than a sort of bribe ("I'm holding this house hostage until you give me back the money I paid for it."). You're technically being asked to pay for the seller's purchase (or sometimes, several times their purchase) on top of your own. You pay for THEIR past entertainment/use of the house, and then buy the house AGAIN for yourself. Which you could otherwise get for only one of the fees if they were being honest and just let it go as they should.

[MomomiMomi]

Which you could otherwise get for only one of the fees if they were being honest.

Is keeping your house dishonest now? Because if not, they can be honest and you can not get the house at all.

[Zelas]

Is keeping your house dishonest now? Because if not, they can be honest and you can not get the house at all.

Keeping it, no. Trying to bribe someone into giving you back the money you spent for it is.

To be honest, I'd rather they keep the damn house than tried to rob me. But then, if they have no interest for it, they'd just be keeping it out of spite, so that speaks for itself, too.
Like I said earlier; don't want to lose your money? Think about if the investment is worth it. It's no worse than buying a several-millions gil piece of gear on the MB. Are you gonna use it long enough to justify the price? No? Don't buy it.

I do like your attempt to twist my words to make me look bad, though.

[MomomiMomi]

Keeping it, no. Trying to bribe someone into giving you back the money you spent for it is.

Well that's the alternative they've given us. Keep it or give it up for free. I'm definitely not doing the latter. I doubt I'm the only one. So that's less houses available for others because we have no method of selling.

[Zelas]

Well that's the alternative they've given us. Keep it or give it up for free. I'm definitely not doing the latter. I doubt I'm the only one. So that's less houses available for others because we have no method of selling.

They haven't given you an alternative. The community MADE UP that alternative. And it's a bad one.

[MomomiMomi]

They haven't given you an alternative. The community MADE UP that alternative. And it's a bad one.

Keeping it isn't an alternative?

[Zelas]

Keeping it isn't an alternative?

Selling it isn't.

I already said keeping it's fine.

[StouterTaru]

Again, similar but not entirely the same.
I don't condone selling runs, because I think it's a pretty stupid practice and promotes laziness, but at least, there, they're selling something. The person actually GETS the kill/drop/whatever, and if they don't, they have sufficient evidence they got double-crossed (through screenshots, chatlogs, etc.).

For housing, you're not paying the player for anything at all other than a sort of bribe ("I'm holding this house hostage until you give me back the money I paid for it."). You're technically being asked to pay for the seller's purchase (or sometimes, several times their purchase) on top of your own. You pay for THEIR past entertainment/use of the house, and then buy the house AGAIN for yourself. Which you could otherwise get for only one of the fees if they were being honest and just let it go as they should.

It's closer to scalping than bribery. And if you are selling your relinquishment of the plot at the time of the buyer's choosing, they would also "have sufficient evidence they got double-crossed (through screenshots, chatlogs, etc.)." Playing the MB would be bribery by your definition.

Off MB sales over 1M are the same way, the person could take your 20M, 1M at a time, then not give you the item on the last trade. Fraud is fraud, following through on an agreement isn't fraud.

Run/pony sales are closer to bribery than house flipping, you pay the group to do something for you and to pass on the drop(s).

Player casinos aren't against the ToS, but people have been given warnings for spamming chat with them.

[Zelas]

-snip-

Well, English isn't my first language, so I don't know all the fancy words. But I'm sure you catch my drift.
Also, depending on how it's done, runs/pony sale is closer to paying for a service than anything. It's something one can do themselves with time and practice, but that they think is faster/easier if they ask someone more experienced to help them with it.

No matter how you look at it, house flipping is a blatant rip-off. They know you cannot otherwise get what you want, so they try to profit from it. So in that sense, it's worse.

I do get what you mean, though, and I agree with some parts. But that hardly makes the house reselling any more justifiable, imo.

[Niwashi]

It's closer to scalping than bribery.

And most places don't allow scalping either.

Player casinos aren't against the ToS, but people have been given warnings for spamming chat with them.

Well, gambling is specifically mentioned under Prohibited Activities:

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.