FFXIV: The State Of Raiding

[Nezerius]

Huh? I'm not quite sure I understand you? The world's first A8S kill took what? roughly 17 days. That is hardly enough time to get more than a couple pieces of gear beyond the 220 crafted and the Seph EX weapon.

For the group who managed to get the world first A8S clear, 17 days was enough to get 18 pieces of Midas gear (since they cleared A5-7 first week, though not sure how lucky/unlucky they were), 3 i240 weapons (3x A6S tomestone/3x A7S gobdip) as well as 3 gobcoats and 3 gobtwines (for the ones who were lower on the priority list for a weapon, and were able to buy lore gear)

[vp_cmc]

They also had alt runs, so each week two people from static were getting their upgrades, not one

[Bourne_Endeavor]

@Bourne_Endeavor There's a lot more to gear in MMORPGs than necessity. I've stated it before in a previous posting, actually, but I'll gladly go over it again since it didn't seem to stick. People are not getting gear because it is necessary: They are getting that highest iLvL gear because it is the end of the vertical content ladder. Once people have the highest level iLvL gear they can either move on to other parts of the game or quit for a while and come back later without that little voice nagging them that they left something unfinished. People don't even need 220 gear to play the game, Bourne, they get it because the game is designed around increasing ones power level by getting better gear.


The point of the larger group tackling savage content is not about the gear. It's about letting people experience those harder and more complex modes in a larger group that has more forgiving conditions thanks to the larger group size. It lets people come back into the game later and still be able to find a group to do these modes, since they can join an oversized group to learn the fight safely, without wasting peoples time, then get to come along on the 8 man runs because they've seen the fight through.

Indeed, there is. Content as a whole is created to serve multiple demographics, often will only varying degrees of overlap. Savage caters to those who desire a challenge above and beyond the normal in the same sense crafting is essentially a game within a game. You're now suggesting it be substantially nerfed or overhauled entirely just so people can easily collect gear they will never need nor have any practical reason to use. People wanting the best gear isn't a good excuse to reduce the difficulty just so they can brag. It's meant to be a reward for one subsection of the game. And if we're being honest, no MMO wants its userbase to "move on." They want you to continue playing to increase their bottom line. If everyone could clear Savage within a month, well, you might see a higher drop in subs waiting while they wait for the next raid cycle six months later.

If you aren't able to clear Savage, then your endgame is normal mode or something else. Now that isn't to say they couldn't scale down some of the mechanics to improve overall clear rates, but that's different than turning Savage into a pseudo-24 man raid.

Except they won't. As I have already said, Savage has a slew of very specific mechanics that necessitate you do specific things or it will cause a wipe. 16 people not only vastly reduces the difficulty of Savage-- thereby undoing its purpose to begin with -- you're now reliant on say, sixteen people to pass ice procs or not die at all throughout A7S. You will also push phases significantly, resulting in large portions of the mechanics being skipped. So there won't be any practicing. What will end up happening is raid groups still only wanting eight man statics or infighting because now you have sixteen people possibly messing up in lieu of eight.

Uhm. No. The world first A8S kill took not this longe because of missing skill. They did need the gear they've got till they finally finished it.

Elysium did up to A7S with crafted gear and Sephirot weapons. They had some ilvl 230 for Brute Justice. Point remains, you don't need this gear for anything except Savage.

[Colt47]

The point I'm making is that they are dividing up the end game community by mechanics learning. If everyone learns the mechanics and has been exposed to the same fight, they can try to win under more adverse conditions to improve what they can get. Being more inclusive in letting people see the fights will benefit everyone, including the people traditionally interested in doing savage. There's no point to exposing unique mechanics and patterns to a small portion of the populace, then have RF / PF groups.

[KarstenS]

Huh? I'm not quite sure I understand you? The world's first A8S kill took what? roughly 17 days. That is hardly enough time to get more than a couple pieces of gear beyond the 220 crafted and the Seph EX weapon.

They did it in the third ID (A5-7S was done within the first ID).

In that time they've got 3 tomes for weapons (I'm shure all 3 of them got handed out to DPS players), 3 upgrade mats for the tome weapons (they drop in A7!), 3 upgrade mats for left side, 3 upgrade mats for right side and 18 pieces of i240 gear (6xAccs/belts and 12x left side).

As 3 weeks were enough to get tomes for lore weaopns, the kill week was the trade in for 3 x i240 tome weapons to the DPS players.

Even if there was crap in some of the chests, its alot they've got till their kill. Up to 24 pieces of i240 gear and the 3x i240 weapons did a huge boost in DPS, life pool (you need alot of life in A8) and other stats.

And if that is true, they had even more gear:

They also had alt runs, so each week two people from static were getting their upgrades, not one

[Pasquale]

All these people crying.. Mom i can't do savage is too hard ; ; plz mom nerf it i want easy content , i want highest weapon so i can say to my friends.. HEY GUYS IM TOO GOOD!!. Can't you just accept that if is there something where u are not good enough u try to do something else? Instead of crying and asking of easier content... Eorzea is a big place , go collect minion , go farm glamour stop ask to change something just cuz u are not good enough to do it.

[Nicobo]

....The content is Savage level and is meant to be brutally hard. The problem is how this content was introduced to this game....

It reminds me at the first place, YoishiP introduced salvage as an extra challenge for the sake of challenge and no iLV up from it.
That's why it could be very hard and still ok.

Now they put gear upgrade into it, then more players need to have it done resulting it could not be too hard. ^^;

So yes I agree with you, remove gear upgrade from salvage then it could be very hard without any complaints.

[Colt47]

It reminds me at the first place, YoishiP introduced salvage as an extra challenge for the sake of challenge and no iLV up from it.
That's why it could be very hard and still ok.

Now they put gear upgrade into it, then more players need to have it done resulting it could not be too hard. ^^;

So yes I agree with you, remove gear upgrade from salvage then it could be very hard without any complaints.

That would be another way to do it, though exposing more people to the same patterns of boss mechanics across difficulties will open up the possibility of more people participating in the harder versions of a fight, which helps to fix the late comers issue that happens when people come back post patch launch. Getting rid of the new player bonus would probably also help, since it mostly just flags that someone is brand new to a fight.

[Hayward]

All these people crying.. Mom i can't do savage is too hard ; ; plz mom nerf it i want easy content , i want highest weapon so i can say to my friends.. HEY GUYS IM TOO GOOD!!. Can't you just accept that if is there something where u are not good enough u try to do something else? Instead of crying and asking of easier content... Eorzea is a big place , go collect minion , go farm glamour stop ask to change something just cuz u are not good enough to do it.

Now don't you feel special putting people down (using nonsense talking points, as per usual among the elitist posers) for seeking to gain access to and experience in content you and others want to wall off from everyone else? It's a video game, champ. Contrary to what you may believe, Yoshi-P isn't handing any of you Steph Curry money for beating Savage fights, so maybe dial it back a bit with the attitude.

[KarstenS]

It's a video game.

And the nature of games, other than in books or movies, is: You can lose.