FFXIV: The State Of Raiding

[otarolgam]

I'll agree to the idea of a mid-level raiding tier, but only if they stop with the idea that "huge hits" and "DPS checks" is a brutal tactic. Seriously, get more creative.

If I wanted to take huge hits, I'd go to a Marijuana Shop.

[Alisa180]

One of the major problems I've seen with raiding is the emphasis on each person having to do things exactly right, and so much as one screw up causes the whole group to wipe. This is what discourages many raiders from integrating players newer to the fight. Adding someone who doesn't know the fight yet is pretty much asking for the whole group to wipe multiple times before they reach the point they were at again.

Its hard for slower learners too. When one person is consistently screwing up, and not picking it up within a few tries, the rest of the party starts to side-eye them. I've seen many cases where a person is trying their hardest, and *will* eventually get it, given enough time, but the rest of the raid just doesn't have the patience. They'd rather find someone who can either pick it up faster, or better, knows the fight already, so they can finally move on.

Its not a case of 8-man parties, because one look of World of Warcraft tells you parties much larger can work. No, I think the problem is a combination of how one person's mistakes can cause the whole group to wipe, and a very justified lack of patience in veteran raiders.

The best things the devs could do, I think, is to tweak the raid design so that one person screwing up accidentally doesn't equal an auto-wipe for the whole group. A raid should be very salvageable if one DPS, or even one healer or tank, dies. Normally death=Yeah we aren't going any farther. It shouldn't be that harsh. Yes, there should be SOME consequences if a person dies, but right now the punishment levied on the group for a minor screw from one is far too harsh, IMO.

[Iromi]

I'll agree to the idea of a mid-level raiding tier, but only if they stop with the idea that "huge hits" and "DPS checks" is a brutal tactic. Seriously, get more creative.

If I wanted to take huge hits, I'd go to a Marijuana Shop.

LOL this. It is just the same stuff...different looking monsters. Do not want.

[VirusChris]

snip

This so much. I've noticed this a lot. One person dies and the whole fight is nigh salvageable unless the team can really bounce back from having one person mess up. It's too punishable which I find funny considering Japan has top hardcore players but hate things too difficulty (if the survey of Nioh is anything to go by).

Some middle ground would be nice or a different take on the raid fights. I like to try the Savage content, but I dislike how it's handle at the moment.

[Iromi]

This so much. I've noticed this a lot. One person dies and the whole fight is nigh salvageable unless the team can really bounce back from having one person mess up. It's too punishable which I find funny considering Japan has top hardcore players but hate things too difficulty (if the survey of Nioh is anything to go by).

Some middle ground would be nice or a different take on the raid fights. I like to try the Savage content, but I dislike how it's handle at the moment.

Yeah, this has been brought up for 3 years and SE still ignoring it and STILL wondering why less then .01% of the population does their raids. Instead they think nerfing it will make it better...noooope!

[OranKells]

I would love to see a midas(extreme), not as hard as savage. slightly watered down mechanics, still difficult. only drops one chest. no manifesto pages. shares a restriction with savage. good stepping stone and more accessible to those of us that can't dedicate 3/4 nights a week to raiding

[Pasquale]

Omg people asking again about mid-core raid... The point you don't get is.. Alexander Midas Savage is a midcore raid!!!! ( only a8s is between midcore and hardcore but for sure not full hardcore) people who find it too difficult is just cuz... Man u are not good for raid that's all try to do something else. My experience tonight we did a6s for a friend with bonus , we had dead people on each boss raised when killed and man we did it 20 sec before enrage and i was like.. How the hell people can't clear this if we do it troll mode o.o. The real hardcore thing is to build a party of 8 man with some skills and some time to spend for this game that's all.

[mp-please]

Too many gear sets implemented during 3.2 also dilluted the reward and most people didn't bothered with the risk after the whole living liquid fiasco.
With crafted sets being roughly as good as tome gear, midas normal sets being 90% useless and midas savage gear being relatively unnecessary for 90% of the game content and even the last 10% being clearable without it, people just measured the risk and reward and settled with i220-i230 instead of burning their faces through savage.

As a old raider who did all coils but unfortunately had their friends murdered by comcast and living liquid, i have to say that storyline alexander was a huge mistake. It should've never been that easy, raiding isn't and shouldn't have been meant for casuals regardless having a storyline, it should've been a type of content at the same tier of at least >some< of the extreme primals where they can be DF'd but not hard enough that require a major plan to clear.

[SpookyGhost]

Man u are not good for raid that's all try to do something else

What would you suggest?

[Brian_]

This place has a gutter-tier reputation for a reason, I guess. I think it does a pretty good job of representing exactly what is wrong with the NA community.

I think people need to educate themselves, understand some basic facts, and take a good long look in the mirror before sharing their opinion.

As a JP based developer that resides within that echo-chamber, what do you think SE sees? Given that we don't have access to their internal data, we can only look at guesstimates. But, lets take a look at the main JP raiding server, Chocobo.

As of 4/20/2016, 8064 people cleared the 3.2 MSQ. Even if you assume that a lot of active 60s merely cleared the requisite quests to unlock the Anti-tower and have left the rest of their MSQ incomplete, you're still looking at 9017 people who cleared the 3.1 MSQ. To me, meeting the basic standards to do the latest EX-primal and EX-roulette is a fair qualification of an end-game participant.

Of the same player-pool, 1410 people are in possession of the Gobwalker mount. Yes, this is an imperfect means of quantifying how many people cleared A4S since it can't account for alts or cleared players who don't have the mount. Yes, a portion of the people with Gobwalker mounts might not've cleared the 3.1 MSQ due to quitting the game. Yes, a potion of these people might've gone and gotten their mount after 3.2. But, it's the best we can do.

Even as a portion of the 3.1 MSQ clearing populace, it's still nearly 16%.

Given the same conditions, Gilgamesh, NA's top raiding server, has 9277 people who've cleared the 3.1 MSQ, 7770 people who've cleared the 3.2 MSQ, and yet only 475 people who are in possession of the Gobwalker mount. That's 5%.

So if I'm in SE's position, what do I see?

Do I see a raiding community that is in desperate need of repair? No. Do I conclude that the content is way too hard? No. The raiding community seems to be pretty healthy on Chocobo and the content probably just needs some slightly more lenient tuning (which explains Midas).

So, in SE's eyes, while the content might still be over-tuned, they probably aren't that concerned with it. They probably see it more as a server-to-server issue and that's why they're prioritizing cross-server RF for 3.3.

As for the NA side, at what point do you just have to accept the reality that the NA player base is horrible? At what point do you just leave the NA community behind in terms of raid balance because the NA community clearly is just not a raiding community? How many consecutive raid tiers of embarrassing under-performance do you need to see before you just consider it a lost cause?

As a player base, at what point do you actually git gud so that the developers can actually take you seriously rather than as some petulant, self-entitled children?