Would you like an in-game parser?

[Jynx]

While it isn't primarily about the use of a parser it does touch on the issue quite well and shows what the likely scenario would be which is overall apathy from the general playerbase, granted this was done in World of Warcraft which allows the use of add-ons and by extension parsing programs..

All this video shows us is that Parsers wont effect the game in the way some people in this thread paint it, either negative or positive.

The bad players wont want to do better just because there are numbers on screen, the good ones don't need these numbers outside the most recent content and anyone doing that content most likely already uses a parser or has someone running one for them making it moot. The only people who are effected are those who don't understand how to use parsers, alienating them and causing confusion the numbers provided by a parser aren't just "Bigger is better" making it easy for people who don't understand that to mistakenly attack other players or think they are actually doing poorly when they are doing fine.

I think parsers are a fine tool but those who need them already have them I think it's redundant to want to force it on everyone.

[Lambdafish]

I think parsers are a fine tool but those who need them already have them I think it's redundant to want to force it on everyone.

While I do agree to some extent, there is one key variable that flips this entirely on it's head when comparing it to WoW (or 99% of MMOs for that matter). WoW is PC exclusive, which means that 100% of the playerbase has access to a parser if they really wanted to, whereas XIV is across the PS3 and PS4 where those players literally have no access to such a tool, putting them at a "disadvantage" to PC players if they ever wanted or needed to use a parser. People could cite FFXI as a game that didnt have or need parsers/addon support, but this game is far more akin to WoW in it's combat style and requirements than XI, and therefore we need to compare this as WoW if it had a console port that couldn't have a parser, which puts holes in your arguement.

Also offhand: we got more details on raid finder today, the practice section seems like it would be a great place for an opt in global parser to test damage outputs for specific phases. Doesn't help with Ex primals, but it would be a start. If it worked like this: 1) you can only practice phases that you have reached. 2) You can set requirements so that people can only join who have beaten X phase, either in practice or progression.What this would mean is that in order to join said group you should use practice (and the help of the global parser) to improve yourself and your team in order to prove to progression groups that you can beat the content, to me this (in conjunction with SSS) would be the perfect way to run this system at it's absolute strictest.

[Ryel]

All this video shows us is that Parsers wont effect the game in the way some people in this thread paint it, either negative or positive.

The bad players wont want to do better just because there are numbers on screen, the good ones don't need these numbers outside the most recent content and anyone doing that content most likely already uses a parser or has someone running one for them making it moot. The only people who are effected are those who don't understand how to use parsers, alienating them and causing confusion the numbers provided by a parser aren't just "Bigger is better" making it easy for people who don't understand that to mistakenly attack other players or think they are actually doing poorly when they are doing fine.

I think you're missing a part of the point the video makes, it's true that damage meters have little to no effect on player attitudes in LFR which is the WoW equivalent of our Duty Finder for the majority of content, provided content is being cleared. However this is what every single pro parsing argument has already put forth, nobody is going to care what you do in Ex roulette or normal mode trials or 24 man raids as long as the content is being completed in a timely manner.

If one DPS in my party is doing 50% of the damage of the other and we're still clearing our expert dungeon in 15-20 minutes I doubt anyone is going to say anything about it because it isnt likely that anyone is going to care, this changes however if the party is wiping to the boss repeatedly and the run is now 40-50 minutes in because one DPS is unable to pull their weight and holding back the rest of the party then I imagine someone might speak up and say something, In the same way we already do if someone in the party is repeatedly messing up a fight critical mechanic and wiping the group regardless of how well their DPS may be.

Parse results aren't all that hard to read and understand in context, It isn't just about "bigger is better" but rather a larger sustained average is better than a smaller one and that isn't all that difficult of a concept to explain, the initial wave of confusion will pass when players start to understand how a parser reads and what it means for their performance, but if you're going to sit there and say that new information may alienate some players or cause confusion, then why should the game bother adding new abilities to jobs or new mechanics to encounters for people to learn if they're just going to be "alienated and confused"?

That line of reasoning sounds very much like the "burden of knowledge" argument a certain "MOBA" company likes to make when it comes to anything that may promote players using critical thinking or problem solving skills.

I think parsers are a fine tool but those who need them already have them I think it's redundant to want to force it on everyone.

Except the console playerbase who have been repeatedly asking for a parser since the launch of the game seeing as a full console static is unable to even think of competing in the world first race when it comes to clearing the highest levels of content without at least 1 PC player in the party. And no, telling them to "ask a PC player to parse them" is not a solution. If anything that approach is a bit condescending as it takes the stance of "well you don't need it but if you really want it go ask someone else playing on another platform to help you" essentially treating them like second class players unfortunately.

Not that you implied this mind you, but it's a common response when the wishes of the console players are brought up.

And about "forcing" it on players?

I feel this is by far the best compromise for the situation:

It was already mentioned, that they could just add it to the Duty Finder Settings.

[] Damage-Meter
*Can only be selected in a duty with party size requirements or when using undersized party.
*Only certrain duties allow Damage-Meter
*Only party leader may select this setting
________

________

So no-parser-ppl just don't join those groups in pf, just like baddies don't (or shouldn't) join the ones with 'minimum ilvl' and a player tired of facerolling content not joining the 'undersized party (with 8 ppl)' ones and the one who really wants the drop for his mainclass not joining the 'Greed only' groups.

I just don't see the problem here.

[Jynx]

And about "forcing" it on players?

best compromise

That would not be a "Compromise" one of two things would happen. The majority of the playerbase would use one option or the other, and the less used option would become useless to do any content. hilariously enough due to the ratio of people who want to "Get Gud" the option that got ignored would most likely be the DPS meter option making it only used in content that is allready saturated in players using the third party equivalent that will most likely be superior to anything Square Enix would cobble together.

The only people who really have it any sort of "Bad" situation currently are consol only players and it's a rare occasion when they are somehow left out because they are unable to ask a single human who has a parser to give them a few numbers.

The pro parser community blows the "need" for a official parser out of proportion when there is no real need for it.

[Ryel]

That would not be a "Compromise" one of two things would happen. The majority of the playerbase would use one option or the other, and the less used option would become useless to do any content. hilariously enough due to the ratio of people who want to "Get Gud" the option that got ignored would most likely be the DPS meter option making it only used in content that is already saturated in players using the third party equivalent that will most likely be superior to anything Square Enix would cobble together.

This is entirely possible, however seeing as the framework already exists in the game i see no harm in actually adding it and allowing the playerbase to have the option available. If what you say is true and it will be underused then so be it, but at least those who wish to make use of it will have the option unlike now, and those who are using 3rd party ones can continue to do so if they wish, it's not like we haven't had development time spent on things that are barely used in this game before (looking at you LoV).

I think it's better to add the option and let the players speak for themselves, don't you?

[Jynx]

I think it's better to add the option and let the players speak for themselves, don't you?

I think it's a gross waste of resources if that's the case!

[Lambdafish]

I think it's a gross waste of resources if that's the case!

For what reason? Because you won't use it? I think the glamour system was a huge waste of resources because I don't really care about my characters appearance, I think that making fenrir fly is a huge waste of resources because I don't have or want one. A parser is an extreamly helpful (if not necessary) tool for end game raiding, and fights are only getting harder and more dependent on high DPS (bismark, Thordan, and the entirety of savage come to mind). The fact that this thread exists, that it is so widely debated, and that in the original OPs poll, pro parsers are winning 3/1, shows that it is definitely not a waste.

[WeekendSoja]

The resource argument is purely for the fact that parsers are currently downloadable for free, no cost to the players or SE.

Whereas, I believe that there is currently no reskinning program that will allow you to glam, change race, and overlay mounts at your whim...others won't see it but you will...and I don't think there is such a program available for people...

Where it is true that opening parsers to the general populace would make people "transparent" and allow for more accountability, but the chances of people leaving the game because of this...is high.

Tl;dr Parsers are easily available so SE doesn't need to allocate man hours to it. Glam mods are no so easily available.

[Reynhart]

I feel this is by far the best compromise for the situation:

I don't think that will happen. For me, the farthest they'll go is to allow add-ons made by the players and that damage meters will surely be a part of it. Wich bring it back to the hands of the players to do what they want with it.
And thos add-ons will probably widen even more the gap between PC and console players.