Can we have option to VK a player because they are below a reasonable skill level?

[Eidolon]

so The Vault, tank geared just about sufficiently for that run, the rest all 230ilvl..the tank can get kicked because well is visible that the tank is not up to paar compared to the others ? ..ohh it shouldnt ? well let me tell you it happens... is that right ? no but ...it falls Under...different playstyle and NOT harrassement

According to you though it would be harrassement on the part of the tank ...

Ifirst of all: that scenario given is perfectly fine. If those three really don't want you around, they can kick you. Does it suck? Sure! But do you really want to be in DF with people who think so lowly of you?

Second: your scenario is a little bias. Why would they kick a tank that is, for all intents and purposes, average? Not many people are willing to wait for a new tank. Not only that, they wouldn't want to risk getting a below average tank. Your example is silly.

[Fynlar]

It's difficult to define "reasonable". What is reasonable for someone might be being able to speed run through a dungeon, while for another person reasonable might be simply being able to clear it.

Reasonable means just being able to clear it. Expecting speed runs out of everyone means you are not accounting for the fact that there are players new to content, and that is pretty unquestionably unreasonable even just on the basis that they were all newbs once too.

I can understand the frustration of not being able to finish a dungeon because one player is not pulling their own weight or geared appropriately, but to play devil's advocate, why is it that the healer should be the one to leave so you can finish the dungeon? I understand they were not skilled / geared well enough to heal everyone, but why does it mean they should be required to leave?

Because it's not fair (or respectful) for one incapable person to hold back three/seven capable ones?

Boy, that was easy.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

so The Vault, tank geared just about sufficiently for that run, the rest all 230ilvl..the tank can get kicked because well is visible that the tank is not up to paar compared to the others ? ..ohh it shouldnt ? well let me tell you it happens... is that right ? no but ...it falls Under...different playstyle and NOT harrassement

According to you though it would be harrassement on the part of the tank ...

Don't give me that different play style crap.

There is a right way and a wrong way to play each class in this game. If your "play style" is causing issues, then it's YOUR responsibility to either change the way you play or leave. A dungeon is a group effort, don't hold the other members hostage to your BS just because you have an inflated ego

[Xlantaa]

No, just no. Stop with put barriers to people for any stupid reason. And I'm glad SE punish anyone who use VK in a bad way.

YOu need destiguish if he is trolling, or he really can't play better. That's very difficult to see. It is only fair if he is trolling you, the othe case, is unfair.

[Zojha]

Reasonable means just being able to clear it. Expecting speed runs out of everyone means you are not accounting for the fact that there are players new to content, and that is pretty unquestionably unreasonable even just on the basis that they were all newbs once too.

In which case, they will reason that there are multiple guides and videos out there to learn extensively before you queue up and that everyone should do just that because otherwise they're holding people back. Which is considered a reasonable argument and in fact already expected for endgame content.
And if it's the gear holding the group back, crafted items are easy to get, so that's naturally no excuse either.
Moreover, especially as DPS, clearly reasonable does not merely mean to clear the content, if you go by any of the popular parser threads.

I get the feeling reasonable is fairly subjective and dependent on how much effort you expect your teammates to put into a video game.

[MeiUshu]

Don't give me that different play style crap.

There is a right way and a wrong way to play each class in this game. If your "play style" is causing issues, then it's YOUR responsibility to either change the way you play or leave. A dungeon is a group effort, don't hold the other members hostage to your BS just because you have an inflated ego

different ways to play and approach a play...different ways to grow and learn neither right or wrong and neither should be a reason to kick anyone

and the reason why people like you are a problem for the vote kick.

@Zojha

crafter gears HQed I had them, I wa skicked because I had "white gears* and therefore not up to paar...yep it happens...most of you say alot of things, most of you wants the others to be like you want them to be but this is not as it works.. Acceptance and knowing how to work with others is...a must in this game ..OTHERWISE you all have a choice to play only with friends and only with FCs and never in PF or DF where you might get people not to your liking probably the best way....no need to kick then since you know them right ? not sure why you all insist in going through df or pf and then coplain that this or that is not up to paar....you can do otherwise

[AutoWhit]

I too had a lot of issues trying to get through that last boss in the Vault. Several times in a row, over a span of a few days (could only get a few queue pops in a night), I had noticed the healers struggling to get through that fight. One group in particular really made me sit back and think about it. This is the basic convo that made me shake my head -

after 3 or 4 wipes;

Tank (not that great as it was) - please kick healer
Healer (really was struggling to even keep the tank up) - No, that's ok, I'll leave. I don't want to hold you guys up any longer. Sorry.

healer leaves

When the healer left so did I, and then I tried whispering him/her to apologize (I was gonna turn down any vote to kick), but unfortunately they were on a different server and it wasn't possible. I felt terrible about what had transpired.

Now, I have never played a healer, in any game.....ever, and I most likely never will. The reason - it's not my style of play. I play tanks and dps, that's it. I do understand the pressure of being a healer, though. Having to make sure the entire group is staying alive. For that reason you will never see me calling out a healer or voting to kick them. Healing is a special role that takes a lot of practice to perfect, especially if you are not used to watching the group rather the than mobs or bosses. I will slog through any instance with a struggling healer if it means they are trying to get better at their role/class.

So, I thought about how healing can be pretty tough in any mmo already, and then I thought how this game also throws in console players or pc players using controllers. I can't even imagine how difficult it must be trying to remember all the button combos needed to perform abilities (my hats off to you folks that do it well). Maybe that struggling player is learning new button combos for abilities, or maybe they actually are a pc player that has no clue how to play his/her class. How can one know unless one takes the time to find out and maybe help that player out?

All I can say to the callousness of that sub-par tank is thanks for probably making someone feel bad enough to stop playing that role, or worse, playing the game altogether......great job ***hat.

[Vidu]

different ways to play and approach a play...different ways to grow and learn neither right or wrong and neither should be a reason to kick anyone

Except that it should be reasonable to assume that someone who reached level 50/60 with a certain class should be able to perform at least decently, right? being "new" only goes to a certain extend - being new in a dungeon, okay, fine, no problem! The new dungeons are easy enough IF you've learned your ropes before. Antitower isnt the right place to discover what your level 52 skill actually does or how to dodge an AoE. Its called "expert roulette" not "oh, I got this skill 30 hours ago, lets find out what it does now!"

[Seraphix2407]

Uhh, no... one, i230 doesn't even take effect in the Vault, and two, I'm talking massive undergearing to the point your party cannot even progress. Like, you have to literally try to be that bad.

If you, as a tank, come into the Vault dressed in your item level 50 AF gear (or worse)... yeah, I'm calling that griefing and harassment because you queued up solely to waste the time of 3 other people in the DF. There is *no* excuse for that sort of thing and you shouldn't be defending it either.

Like this guy I noticed wearing lvl 39-42 gear in dusk vigil. I told him to swap gear and he said, yeah I forgot to, so we pull more and it's still on. Then he says I don't have any other gear... Wasted 15-20 min on first boss, not onl was the gear soo low, but the fact making it look like he was on netflix same time, not bothering with the rotation's at all, somewhat decent, he just wasted peoples time.

[WeekendSoja]

Isn't this topic what the option "harassment" is for? I mean unless I missed something in the TOS doesn't SE leave the definition of this word more so as a term and not the actual word?

In this case the word is left open so that people can choose this option for when someone is literally trolling a group and purposely soaking aoe in hopes of dying ect.

In this regard and the definition being open it could be defined as "skill level" with regard to that person holding back an entire group without adequately understanding their own jobs capabilities + current contents intricacies...that's just my interpretation for that but I rarely kick...I just leave or log off and hit the relax button irl lol