3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Nakanishi]

As far as melee rankings go it's: MNK > DRG >NIN

DRG is easily the worst melee of the bunch with its very noticeably inferior mobility compared to the other 2 melee

MNK/NIN mobility verse every other Job's mobility is barely noticeable when it matters, what is it 10%? Simply Sprinting (no cost) puts everyone on the same pace. The additional movement speed is one of the few one-ups NIN has over DRG, which is barely anything if you are trying to catch-up. Which is not really an issue with numerous gap closers/weapon throw/sprint/cc/etc. In the escape options, yes its a plus, but that is about the only avenue NIN has over both MNK/DRG.

its glaring lack of defensive cooldowns or tools (ala Axe kick, Shade shift, Fists of Earth, and enhanced movement speed (fists of wind/poison toggle))

MNK is superior when it comes to defense and defensive utility, hands down. NIN's Shadeshift is also fairly powerful, although it only works against Physical Attacks. MNK/DRG have Bloodbath, which is exceptionally powerful to help heal themselves if they are getting bursted while they are bursting, in which Life Surge also has additional healing. Bloodbath/Life Surge + Enhanced Keen Flurry vs Shade Shift puts DRG/NIN pretty even in the defense department

The enhanced movement is only valid when you are escaping thus meaning you are most likely on the losing end of the encounter and/or sacrificing damage to potentially alleviate/delay yourself of death. In the theory of using the movement speed to escape, you are also saving Fetter Ward for it, any decent player/team will use Stun/Heavy/Bind to catch-up and demolish you, and if you are saving it for that, that means the burst you may do will easily be interrupted.

its general lack of utility when compared to Ninja and Monk (who can bind, hide with medals, strip buffs, silence lock whms to secure kills in instances etc)

Monk's utility is so great because of its uniqueness, the ability to repeatedly strip buffs, enhanced Mantra, AoE Pacification, and the bonus of reducing caster damage.

NIN on the other hand has a Bind (EVERY Range/Healer has this,DRs), Grounded Heavy (sacrifices damage to do utility ninjutsu), a 3s silence (very good), 10% vuln (unreliable), slashing debuff (lol PLD damage), and the ability to Hide (which is more of an oversight than utility). The utility that stood out the most for NIN was taken completely away, which was the 20% healing down.

NIN's utility on paper seems like a lot, but take it in to an actual Lv. 60 PvP fight, and the power it once had in Patch ~3.1 Lv. 50 Den just feels so weak in comparison.

DRG's utility is mostly damage boosting with Disembowel and Battle Litany which are very strong. Battle Litany being good for offense/defense allowing healers to crit more. However DRG has taken a hit to Slow/skewer duration, albeit, the slow is still exceptionally strong.

DRG/MNK also very slightly increase tank damage just by existing in the party.

Only thing DRG has going for it atm is the fact that MCH is so feared (and brd to a lesser extent) and therefore we work well with them for the purpose of being a disembowel and litany bi**ch. Yet I dont see any DRG's crying nearly as much as these phantom Ninjas who these repeated buffs are trying to appease.

DRG actually has a lot going for it. On top of the stuff mentioned above, it has the strongest burst of the three which is saying a lot in a game mode with win conditions centered around strongly timed burst. While NIN burst is not far behind, it is unreliable, and can be seen MILES away, more noticeable than that of a Bard. It is also easier to mitigate by simply not turning your back to them forcing them to blow a stun if they think they're gonna do a powerful burst.

Overall(NIN/DRG): DRG has superior offense/sustain, NIN/DRG similar levels of defense, NIN better utility, DRG has superior burst. DRG is just simply better.

Being able to run and hide like a b- is the only reason to bring a NIN, but it doesn't make a job good in a game mode about killing other players. Unless, of course, we are referring to solo queue in which no one knows anything about Ninja.

Even then, in order to get out of combat you have to either kill everyone or be almost 65% of the map away from the people you are in combat with. Yes, if by some miracle your team gets ahead of another equally skilled team (different comp), perhaps you can run for 3 minutes around the map. I'd just bring a BLM for that though.

Don't get me wrong, though, I adore Ninja, would love to play it again competitively, but it just isn't there.

[Dimitrii]

You wrote alot here and while I agree with several of your points there are some I don't agree with so I'll just focus on those in the interest of trying to keep this short. I'll admit however to being over dramatic in saying DRG is the worst melee of the bunch. While it is noticeably inferior to Monk (as is NIN), it probably is slightly better than NIN or at the very least on the same level so I'll agree with your ranking.

MNK/NIN mobility verse every other Job's mobility is barely noticeable when it matters, what is it 10%? Simply Sprinting (no cost) puts everyone on the same pace. The additional movement speed is one of the few one-ups NIN has over DRG, which is barely anything if you are trying to catch-up. Which is not really an issue with numerous gap closers/weapon throw/sprint/cc/etc. In the escape options, yes its a plus, but that is about the only avenue NIN has over both MNK/DRG.

Ordinarily I would whole-heartedly agree with you on this. However, I am not sure of the prevalent ranged dps over there on Aether, but over here MCH is by far the most common ranged dps you will encounter in feast. This job specifically is the job that really exposes Dragoons lack of mobility (relatively speaking compared to mnk/nin of course) as it is the only dps in the game currently with a knockback running on a 30 second cooldown. As a dragoon its much more difficult to keep up with a mch because of this as unlike mnk/nin dragoons do not have the benefit of a 30 sec gap closer nor the enhanced movement speed to eventually run them down again. Not saying its impossible, just saying it is indeed very noticeable in this scenario.

MNK is superior when it comes to defense and defensive utility, hands down. NIN's Shadeshift is also fairly powerful, although it only works against Physical Attacks. MNK/DRG have Bloodbath, which is exceptionally powerful to help heal themselves if they are getting bursted while they are bursting, in which Life Surge also has additional healing. Bloodbath/Life Surge + Enhanced Keen Flurry vs Shade Shift puts DRG/NIN pretty even in the defense department

Bloodbath and Life Surge while indeed useful and powerful, still requires you to be actively engaged and attacking someone to even have any effect unlike fists of earth/shade walker. As such it suffers from the drawback of being rendered useless if the opposition is coordinating CC on you while bursting you (stuns, knockbacks, blind, etc). Keen flurry also requires you to be facing your target i believe in order to even be able to parry so its nowhere near as useful imo as shadeshift nor fists of earth in dmg mitigation as its not as consistent as the aforementioned abilities. Dragoon definitely has the worst tool kit among the three melee in surviving bursts because of these reasons.

Atm the only real edge DRG has over the other 2 melees is their burst which when all cooldowns are available is the strongest of the three. However their burst has a longer cooldown than monk so I wouldn't necessarily say monks burst is worse anyway. Battle litany of course is also awesome and feint is nice but it ended up getting nerfed because of mch/brd.