Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

I can't count how many times (as DRG) I LB'd unsuspecting tanks that weren't full HP, I suppose if you're ready to react asap to sacrificing your HP it's fine, but if you have a stack or two and I see an opening I'm definitely gonna take the opportunity to end a match faster.

Well, the moment I see a melee Limit Break me, I usually pop Living Dead in time... If I take your Limit Break rather than my healer, who is now free to heal me because I just healed someone and you're no longer focusing them and in animation lock, I'd say that would be well worth the risk...

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

I understand your point about Carnal Chill though, but that's because you use it as a dps tool, not that it's not meant to be used as such, but it's mostly aimed at supporting your PT. And what greater use than it hiting multiple targets (for dps) AND applying a damage reduction.

I don't just use it for DPS though... That damage reduction would be worthless to me if it's an AoE around me, I'd have to run next to whoever I want to pop it on, rather than just throwing it at someone from across the map... You'd either need to boost its range to be the entire arena or close for me to see any benefit out of that change... If I have to reposition myself in order to apply it, it's worthless... For both DPS and support, I need to be able to point and fire Carnal Chill... Right now I can hit a Warrior with it from across the map and ruin their Feels Cleave, make it AoE around me and I'll have to reposition myself, perhaps I can move early and do the same thing, but now the healer I was harassing doesn't have me on their heels...

Originally Posted by Kyani

Remember how bad Scholars were before the changes to cast times? This would make SCH worse than that. Just charge up on the fairy or another target, then tag the Scholar every time they have to stop to heal.

That's why I'd lock it behind Dark Arts, you'd be unable to really spam it (pending any MP changes for Dark Knight, that is). Depends entirely how much MP it take off, too... If it was 1:1 damage:MP, then that would be insanely powerful, I'd imagine it would be much less... It would essentially be similar to Monk spamming Arm of the Destroyer, effective but unsustainable and coming at the cost of damage.

Originally Posted by Nalien

I've toyed around with the idea of Dark Arts Delirium damaging MP, it would be quite nice for Dark Knight to have something that pushes long encounters in their favor, since currently longer encounters are nothing but bad for a Dark Knight...

Remember how bad Scholars were before the changes to cast times? This would make SCH worse than that. Just charge up on the fairy or another target, then tag the Scholar every time they have to stop to heal.

Speaking of Scholar, any ETA on letting them respawn with fairy and/or Aetherflow? SCH is really not viable without their fairy, and it costs either 6 seconds or a long CD and 2k mana to get it back on res.

Originally Posted by Nalien

IDK about that, situations where that chasing potential works in my favor are usually situations where I want to kill someone as fast as possible, not Bind them and wait for my team to catch up... Waiting usually means their healer respawns and heals them... Bind would be more useful in other situations though, but I think I prefer a previous suggestion of effectively making Tar Pit reverse Mythril Tempest; Draws people in rather than pushing them out. Would have similar utility and make the Heavy slightly more valuable, since you're not only slowing people down, but pulling them away from where they want to be too... Plus interrupt potential...

That depends on what type of bind is in place.

Right now, there's not a lot of difference between a heavy and a bind, because they both essentially do the same thing: Give you more time to smack the victim around while your dps catch up. Most dps can, and will, catch up quite quickly because all melee have a gap closer and ranged are ranged. The only real difference between the two is that Heavy lasts longer, but that's why I proposed that Tar Pit be made into a Ground Based AoE.

The idea here isn't to simply hit the attack, do the dmg, and inflict an instant bind which falls off right when the victim gets struck. The idea is to make Tar Pit into a kind of pseudo-Holmgang. Using it would generate a literal Tar Pit around the Drk, and everyone within range of the Tar Pit is fixed in place. The only way out would be to use Purify. The potential party utility of such a move would more than make up for Drk's current shortcomings, because it could cause interrupts, snare targets for burns, couple well with plunge for chase potential, and even be used as an area denial to isolate targets from objectives or their other teammates.

Make Syphon Strike deal damage with increased MP returned in PVP, with that increase dealt as damage to the target's MP. Letting them attack a healer and decrease enemy dmg output would extend the encounters, bleeding the enemy healer's MP at an increased rate. I do this on SMN, repeat bane and using virus to nerf enemy burst with the focus to extend the fights and bleed the enemy healer of MP. A DRK/SMN team would noticeably bleed a healer more quickly, nerfing burst dmg, and generate more wins for these two jobs that are lacking in their own respective roles. It would be another synergistic combo to add to the scary WHM/BLM teams.

But people would cry OP instantly because heals would be disrupted.

IMO there are not quick fixes, potency adjustments, or special PVP actions that will help DRK in PVP significantly. (Mana Draw is a good start though).

The only way I see DRK being actually playable (competitive) is when there's change like from 2.55 -> 3.0, not necessarily level cap increase, but whenever they do the next skill additions (4.x?). DRK would need a facelift like got SMN 2.55 -> SMN 3.0.

It's problem is it's core mechanics are specifically designed for scripted PVE group play, and those mechanics do not convert to PVP. They could add all the flashy PVP actions they want to compensate, but a bad foundation makes for just too much working against it. I want to DRK in PVP, it's my PVE main, and its job I've been wanting to role since retiring from FFXI, but it just doesn't bring the productivity the other tanks can to my party; so I can't use DRK even though I'd like to.

Eh, Dark Knight isn't that flawed... Parry is the only real issue as far as core flaws go, but that goes for all tanks and is mostly because SE got confused and gave Warrior Raw Intuition for some reason... Paladin gets Sheltron to trigger Shield Swipe, Dark Knight doesn't really have anything for Reprisal... MP in PvP is the biggest issue, simply due to how the Jobs is built for PvE; Blood Price and Blood Weapon are far more effective against static AI, thus Dark Knight loses some of its MP in PvP. Furthermore, PvP is built around burst, while Dark Arts was not designed with that in mind... That's a very easy fix though, while Parry needs a complete overhaul IMO...

There are plenty of minor changes I'd like to see them implement to Dark Knight in general (some of which are almost certainly stupidly unbalanced), but as far as PvP goes they can entirely "fix" it with PvP skills... They can adjust the existing PvP skills to provide more stopping power, and beyond that the only thing Dark Knight is really missing is a form of party healing... Warrior gets that from a PvP skill, so can Dark Knight... As far as damage and burst goes, the Job is perfectly fine provided you know what you're doing with MP... Grit is perhaps the only other thing worth moaning about, but that's tied to MP as well so I wont bother... Addressing MP issues not only fixes a lot of Dark Knights problems, but it also lowers the skill level required to play it effectively, that's perhaps the single biggest adjustment they can make to the Job right now...