SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[FinalWolf]

After dying in the nioh demo, we definitely need samurai in this game.

[Tanathya]

There's still room for a DRK DPS, but when they released it as a tank, the community that wanted it as a DPS got real quiet.

Says you. You must've missed the huge amount of complaints when it was announced as a tank. Of course, those who think that death knights are the equivalent of dark knights were happy.

[DWolfwood]

Says you. You must've missed the huge amount of complaints when it was announced as a tank. Of course, those who think that death knights are the equivalent of dark knights were happy.

Keyword there: released.

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

[Shurrikhan]

Says you. You must've missed the huge amount of complaints when it was announced as a tank. Of course, those who think that death knights are the equivalent of dark knights were happy.

Just gotta say... how does that make sense, especially in the context of tank vs. dps? You're referencing a class for which, at release, every spec could be either role, rotates nothing like a Dark Knight, and shares only a few themes with the latter job ("Abyssal" -> Shadow, delay of death / (temporary) undeath, and a something slightly to do with souls).

I wish I could say the same for DRK, that its toolkit wasn't explicitly built to be a tank but rather tanking was something it could simply do fairly well, if only for the hybrid possibilities that might bring in the future. But, for better or worse, they're hardly alike.

[Ciri_Wolf]

You're right, Auron wore robes mostly, but his "katana" was also a greatsword as well. But even then, let's take a look at Auron.

He was the guardian of summoner Braska, and caretaker of Tidus later. Auron's specialty are the break abilities that lower enemies' stats, and guard abilities to shield his comrades from enemy attacks. His early stat growth is based around high Strength, Defense and HP.

Hmmm....Defends/shields others, has high STR, VIT, and Defense...what role of the trinity has emphasis on those traits I wonder? So he may be lightly armored in appearance, but in practice he's definitely in line with being a tank. The same goes for Bravely Default's Swordmaster.

But none of that matters with how he looks. Which was my only point.

[MagiusNecros]

Keyword there: released.

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

Part of me doesn't even want another new job period. As they would just fuck it up like they fucked up Summoner, Dark Knight and what have you. As it stands IMO the two best Jobs in the game from a grand perspective is Monk and Warrior thanks to their dynamic design. Mainly the only reason I'm eager to see SAM/RDM is to see how poorly designed it will be before moving back to being the no skill NIN/BLM I am.

[Tanathya]

Keyword there: released.

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

Same thing, you must've missed the incredibly long discussions about it up until not too long ago, and that fire's still breathing, as you can very well see. Honestly, you're just nitpicking without zooming out to care about the bigger picture here.

[Shippuu]

But none of that matters with how he looks. Which was my only point.

Right, he doesn't look like a samurai, almost at all. In fact, he's not even referred to as a samurai in game in any way (he is referred to only as a warrior monk) which brings up the point that in pretty much every Final Fantasy game that features samurai has them in their iconic armor (Outside of Cyan who's armor looks like a mix) , and the games that have a ronin-esque samurai the job/class is decidedly NOT called samurai.

Final Fantasy V:


Final Fantasy VI:


Final Fantasy X-2: Samurai Dressphere, based on Auron but actually called Samurai with much more armor than Auron wore.


Final Fantasy XI:


Final Fantasy Tactics:


Final Fantasy Explorers:


Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade:


Final Fantasy All the Bravest:


Pictologica Final Fantasy:




So yeah, then your non-armored variety include Tactics A2's Parivir, Bravely Default's Swordmaster, and FF12's Mononofu. Specifically not called Samurai. Hmmm...

[Tanathya]

And still, none of you guys can't think of an armor using job that can't be a tank. And what's as bad as that, can't think of a job who could tank without heavy armor. Then we cry out loud for variety. And this is the community in a nutshell.

[Shippuu]

And still, none of you guys can't think of an armor using job that can't be a tank. And what's as bad as that, can't think of a job who could tank without heavy armor. Then we cry out loud for variety. And this is the community in a nutshell.

You just love ignoring the reality of the situation, don't you? Plenty of people have thought up plenty of "armor using job that can't be tanks." It's stupid easy to do, anyone with any kind of imagination can come up with limitless ideas to fit that role. If you take traditionally heavy armor wielding jobs, and make them dps jobs, then you've just made your pool of easy to implement tank jobs even smaller. You want to make tanks who share gear with light armor/no armored jobs? Then welcome to a lot more time and money to make that work and balance, not to mention now you have different roles competing for the same gear which is in general a bad idea. You also then have a tank who cannot be geared simultaneously with the other 3 tanks which eliminates a perk that is used to entice tank (and healers) to play their very important roles because they have an easier time gearing their role across multiple jobs of the same role which allows for tanks and healers to have flexibility.

A tank player can gear all 3 tanks at the same time, this gives them the freedom to play whichever tank job they feel like at any given time. Same goes for healers. If you don't think that wasn't specifically decided to be that way for a reason then you're ignoring the benefits of that system. If you start throwing in tanks and healers that don't fit that mold you eliminate that benefit on top of a bunch of other new problems.

So once again, variety is something that would be nice, but realistically if we want more jobs then simplicity is going to be the likely policy especially since the devs already put out a staggering amount of content on a regular basis. They simply do not have time nor the resources to do wild and crazy things.