SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[mosaicex]

Remember how in almost every anime ever the Samurai rushes forward, there's a flash of light, and 10 bad guys all fall over in a line dead? Or they show the same thing but the Samurai zig-zags through them and...there's a flash of light...and they all fall over dead?

What makes you think Samurai would be anything other than a DPS cutting down enemies just like in literally every anime ever?

Because the very idea of Samurai poking behind monsters' back for 10 minutes instead of facing it heads-on is rather amusing, don't you think? And since you're using animay as a source for your point, can you point me to where Samurai fought like this?

[MagiusNecros]

Because the very idea of Samurai poking behind monsters' back for 10 minutes instead of facing it heads-on is rather amusing, don't you think? And since you're using animay as a source for your point, can you point me to where Samurai fought like this?

Samurai Jack is pretty great.

That said I could attribute the same point with Dark Knights lining up Corpses and yet here we are with Dark Knight the Tank class.

[Krissey]

Because the very idea of Samurai poking behind monsters' back for 10 minutes instead of facing it heads-on is rather amusing, don't you think? And since you're using animay as a source for your point, can you point me to where Samurai fought like this?

Samurai X, Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai Champloo, 7 Samurai, etc... We all know the trope. They kill their enemies in a single blow 10 v 1 and everyone standing nearby is shocked and amazed at their l33t skillz0rs. It's tantamount to DPS - killing so quickly and so precisely the enemy can't fight back.

Whether it looks funny in game mechanics or not is irrelevant. I believe the fantasy they're going for would be a swift striking DPS that probably deals lots of burst damage so against lesser creatures and foes out in world/trash packs they'll tear right through them with ease. Monks, NIN, Dragoons all "fight from the front" out in the world.

Traditionally Pikemen would line up like this: So do Dragoons seem silly because they're not lined up in front of the monsters tanking stabbing them in the face?

[mosaicex]

Traditionally Pikemen would line up like this So do Dragoons seem silly because they're not lined up in front of the monsters tanking stabbing them in the face?

Dragoon are Dragoon and Pikemen are Pikemen. What's your point? Is this how we're going to do it?

Both Paladin and Dark Knight use swords. Should they fight the same way too?

[Krissey]

Dragoon are Dragoon and Pikemen are Pikemen. What's your point? Is this how we're going to do it?

Both Paladin and Dark Knight use swords. Should they fight the same way too?

Because you literally said, and I quote

Because the very idea of Samurai poking behind monsters' back for 10 minutes instead of facing it heads-on is rather amusing, don't you think?

so...I guess that's how we're going to do this. Dragoon are essentially Pikemen - the use spears and attack their enemy. They're certainly not calvary, they don't have horses.

People want to be like "But Samurai attacking from behind is silly right?" So...so are Dragoons by that logic - because in the real world, just like "real Samurai", (btw there aren't any anymore, just like there are not any real Pikemen) they attack from the front...

Don't be mad I'm answering your question "Wouldn't it be silly" with another class that also "attacks from the front" but actually attacks from the sides/back. I mean...when do martial artists punch each other from the back/sides? MMA, UFC, Boxing, Kick Boxing, Muai Thai etc...none of them only punch each other from the sides/back...so Monks are silly too right?

[Alacran]

Samurai X, Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai Champloo, 7 Samurai, etc... We all know the trope. They kill their enemies in a single blow 10 v 1 and everyone standing nearby is shocked and amazed at their l33t skillz0rs. It's tantamount to DPS - killing so quickly and so precisely the enemy can't fight back.

Whether it looks funny in game mechanics or not is irrelevant. I believe the fantasy they're going for would be a swift striking DPS that probably deals lots of burst damage so against lesser creatures and foes out in world/trash packs they'll tear right through them with ease. Monks, NIN, Dragoons all "fight from the front" out in the world.

Traditionally Pikemen would line up like this: So do Dragoons seem silly because they're not lined up in front of the monsters tanking stabbing them in the face?

Having watched many of the anime you listed i still do not recall Back stabbing assassin Samurai in them. Though the idea of a Samurai Tank gap closer being a dash through with a 1-2 second stun to turn the enemy away for DPS positionals sounds rather cool.

As for your point on Pikemen , yes that is a valid point well made. I have always felt that since the only Dragoons in historical existence were the mounted cavalry force, I believed the idea was more of a polearm specialist.

Something more in the vain of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS7sExRrCbw

An Anime reference should the later not be sufficient. (Spoiler Warning: These scenes are of duels featuring spear fighting in the Anime series - Seirei No Moribito, as each fight is concluded, story elements are reveled)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al1CpCfSEHo


(Source:http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Knight)
Dark knights, also known as black knights, were a minority group of knights who refused to serve lords or kings. Instead they either looted and raided, hunted bounties, or lived off the charity from the more humble folk, in much the same manner as a Japanese ronin. As they had no master, and thus no squire, they would paint their armor a signature black color to prevent rust and damage. Dark knights were considered by many a necessary evil, as they would protect villages and lesser people from invaders and bandits, but would also cause problems in the regions they dwelt in to sustain themselves.

Back on topic however the idea of the Samurai you have explained has always been when the Hero is facing a small mook army of no comparable skill. At 60 I can walk out in a low level zone and "kill (my) enemies in a single blow 10 v 1 and everyone standing nearby is shocked and amazed at (my) l33t skillz0rs". That's hardly justification to identify the role of a melee class/job.

Ninjas fought through guerrilla tactics specifically to turn the tables on their Heavily Armored Samurai opponents often not fighting but only gathering information. Monks used their training not only of their bodies but their knowledge of anatomy to strike precise points of their enemies form any and all angles. Dragoons are a mounted cavalry unit in the British armed forces.

[Krissey]

Back on topic however the idea of the Samurai you have explained has always been when the Hero is facing a small mook army of no comparable skill. At 60 I can walk out in a low level zone and "kill (my) enemies in a single blow 10 v 1 and everyone standing nearby is shocked and amazed at (my) l33t skillz0rs". That's hardly justification to identify the role of a melee class/job.

Ninjas fought through guerrilla tactics specifically to turn the tables on their Heavily Armored Samurai opponents often not fighting but only gathering information. Monks used their training not only of their bodies but their knowledge of anatomy to strike precise points of their enemies form any and all angles. Dragoons are a mounted cavalry unit in the British armed forces.

I don't think the direction in other forms of media matters because in movies, anime, television, re-enactments, etc... there does not exist a trinity of "Tank, healer, DPS". If anything that was "created" out of necessity by Dungeons and Dragons (Fighter (tank/distraction/first one in), Rogue (melee dps), Wizard (caster dps), Cleric (healer)) to emphasize certain fantasies (Knight in Shining Armor facing the dragon valiantly, Sneaky Rogue skulking through the Shadows, Arcane master and learned man weaving complicated and powerful spells...and somebody has to keep these nerds alive.) So obviously in various forms of media, or re-enactments or even in real life combat they will generally be facing their opponent. Unless armies maneuvered in ways to flank their enemy (Oh look men with swords attacking from the side, can we have Paladin DPS plz? Samurai DPS plz?) or pincer-ed them.

However the fantasy of being a Swordsman with a razor sharp sword who can cut through anything speaks more to a "DPS" mentality than a "Tank" mentality. Typically all warriors "parry" as is seen in the Robin Hood style sword fights where they clank swords together and make lots of noise and "HAH HAH HAVE AT THEE!" lines with a straight stab forward. Clearly Hollywood - but does that mean all sword users should be tanks? Often in Anime a Samurai would run up behind someone in the thick of battle and stab them through the back, pull their sword out and stab someone coming from the side in their front, pull it out then stab it behind them into someone right behind them in the stomach then shake their sword off of blood.

Killing people efficiently is a DPS thing. Which is why the Machinist (soldier with a gun) is a DPS.

It could honestly go either way - I just think the "general fantasy" speaks more to DPS. Why do I say this? Because in most anime Samurai are people who are respected for their ability to kill people well. Swift, efficient, stylish murder machines. Not people who soak a ton of damage and take punishment while their allies do the killing.

Hell going by Rourouni Kenshin the guy with the bandana and white Gi who is a Karate Master and carries a giant sword much like a Dark Knight takes the punishment (Dark Knight with Giant 2h Sword) while Kenshin knocks them out with his reverse blade sword efficiently. Big 2h sword guy = tank Kenshin Samurai = DPS.

Last point: I only use anime and Japanese media as a point of reference because Samurai are purely a Japanese thing. There just aren't many western movies or cartoons made by westerners with Samurai really. 7 Samurai is their western films basically, from what I can tell.

They have the lone swordsman with a piece of hay in his mouth. We have Clint Eastwood the gunslinger.

[16bitBounty]

While I'll level it regardless it's not a class I'm thrilled about just like I wasn't thrilled about Ninja. Far east themed classes bore me, but anyway, the game needs more tanks. I do agree though that more tank classes won't bring more players to tank in any real sense. Players have to want to tank before they'll play a tank class. A few hardcore samurai fans will play it just to be called a samurai but at the end of the day they'd still probably rather be a dps and more willing than not to wait the ridiculous dps queue times to be dps.

[16bitBounty]

My only experience with a dark knight was from Illusion of Gaia so all I gathered was, magic power, big sword. Still hoping for that Freedan look.

[AlphaFox]

My only experience with a dark knight was from Illusion of Gaia so all I gathered was, magic power, big sword. Still hoping for that Freedan look.

The fact someone else remembers that game is enough for me to love you :3

On the note about Samurai and "fighting head on" whose to say they won't be the Risk vs reward type where your required to be in front for some skills to do more damage. I know Ninja has one skill that requires it (not sure on others at the top of my head) so they could still have to time it between cleaves or tank busters. Granted I realize this would put them in a slight dis-advantage for some like with Midas 5 Preys if they end up in front (less time to run compared to those behind) but that is where learning your job and the fight combines to optimize which skills to use and when.