Request: Remove iLVL requirement for undersized party or pre-made groups

[Xavikon]

So change your gear once you're in the dungeon, ...you can already do that...

Seriously, if that's your motivation, you're making a fuss for nothing, since ilvl only applies to the Duty Finder, and that exceptionally skilled players like Lucrezia or Elysium have all the gear they need to meet the ilvl requirement way before the dungeons are even created...

By, the way, you can edit your post to bypass the 1000 characters limit.

Thanks for the info regarding how to get around 1000 char limit. I don't post on the forums often, so this is helpful information.

I'm not trying to make a fuss, I simply asked for a feature to return to the game that was previously existent in ARR. There does seem to be exceptional negative feedback to this idea, some legitimate, some unfounded. I just don't like seeing groundless arguments against something.

Additionally, as I mentioned, I am not looking for this feature for the exceptional players. I just encountered this issue the other night trying to bring new players through ancient Coil content and thought it seemed quite silly that I have to go buy/craft them i125 gear just to queue for a pre-made dungeon group that is 7/8 in i220/i230 gear.

Thanks~

[Lemuria]

I'm not trying to make a fuss, I simply asked for a feature to return to the game that was previously existent in ARR. There does seem to be exceptional negative feedback to this idea, some legitimate, some unfounded. I just don't like seeing groundless arguments against something.

Game feature? Item levels were never a thing in the past because it wasn't possible to be nearly 100 item levels above a dungeon! Once the gear got too strong they added item level restrictions and requirements to keep the game balanced. This wasn't a "feature" as much as it was a lack of features. And undersized parties were not even possible until the release of Heavensward -- you always needed a FULL party to start any dungeon.

Sorry, but so far your entire argument seems horribly flawed and your only defense is convenience. You've chosen to ignore the obvious abuse that this system could get in favour of shamless promotion. Basically, you're trading game balance for convenience. You won't get anywhere if you just look at one side of the argument, so at least address concerns when you respond instead of burying your head in the sand.

Better gear does not prevent people from being carried in any way.

But it actually DOES! What stops a level 30 from joining a level 60 on a high level dungeon? Oh right, minimum level! What stops an undergeared monk joining on that Coil of Bahamut run? Oh wait! minimum item level! And you basically admitted in the same paragraph that you were forced to upgrade their gear to get in. Guess what? That's the whole point of the system!

Pretending it doesn't do anything doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.

[Xavikon]

Game feature? Item levels were never a thing in the past because it wasn't possible to be nearly 100 item levels above a dungeon! Once the gear got too strong they added item level restrictions and requirements to keep the game balanced. This wasn't a "feature" as much as it was a lack of features. And undersized parties were not even possible until the release of Heavensward -- you always needed a FULL party to start any dungeon.

Sorry, but so far your entire argument seems horribly flawed and your only defense is convenience. You've chosen to ignore the obvious abuse that this system could get in favour of shamless promotion. Basically, you're trading game balance for convenience. You won't get anywhere if you just look at one side of the argument, so at least address concerns when you respond instead of burying your head in the sand.But it actually DOES! What stops a level 30 from joining a level 60 on a high level dungeon? Oh right, minimum level! What stops an undergeared monk joining on that Coil of Bahamut run? Oh wait! minimum item level! And you basically admitted in the same paragraph that you were forced to upgrade their gear to get in. Guess what? That's the whole point of the system!

Pretending it doesn't do anything doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.

A level 30 can't possibly get into a level 60 dungeon due the level requirement, it has nothing to do with the item level requirement.

Additionally, I think perhaps I phrased the comment about carrying in a manner that wasn't clear. Let me try again.

Scenario A) A given dungeon requires iLVL 200 to enter, four players queue at random and get in. Player Y enters with iLVL 230 gear, but presses 1 button and is semi-afk the whole time. The rest of the group is carrying that player.
Scenario B) A given dungeon requires iLVL 200 to enter, four friends queue up together, but player Z only has iLVL 180 gear. Player Z does his best rotation and works hard the whole dungeon. Clearly he doesn't contribute as much as the remaining three, but he does contribute and is carried but not in a necessarily negative way.

Both situations the person is being carried. Scenario A is what we all hate about the concept of "carrying", Scenario B involves "carrying" but I don't see anything wrong with Player Z who is trying, just undergeared and with friends who are willing to accept that handicap...

[Reynhart]

So first, you make this long post about how this feature would benefit people who just want a challenge, and now, it finally ends up as "I want to be able to carry people".
So, again, please, no, because it would allow high geared players to carry undergeared people.

Scenario B) A given dungeon requires iLVL 200 to enter, four friends queue up together, but player Z only has iLVL 180 gear. Player Z does his best rotation and works hard the whole dungeon. Clearly he doesn't contribute as much as the remaining three, but he does contribute and is carried but not in a necessarily negative way.

Considering that the only content that requires ilvl200+ are Midas and Seph EX, no, at 180, you don't contribute, you're just swinging your weapon around, and will be killed comes the first big AoE. And you don't learn a fight when you're dead for the most part.

Besides, if he's only 180, why don't his friends bring him to Gordias ? Why don't they kill Ravana together ? Why don't they hike a little in the void Ark ? Or do some expert roulette to buy i200 and i230 gear ?

[Xavikon]

So first, you make this long post about how this feature would benefit people who just want a challenge, and now, it finally ends up as "I want to be able to carry people".

Considering that the only content that requires ilvl200+ are Midas and Seph EX, no, at 180, you don't contribute, you're just swinging your weapon around, and will be killed comes the first big AoE. And you don't learn a fight when you're dead for the most part.

I never suggested that I wanted this for people who wanted a challenge. This feature never was required for overgeared players from challenging something at a lower iLVL. I gave examples to prove that the DF iLVL was not a strict requirement for completing the content.


Also, thank you for taking the most literal of examples, when what I gave was a hypothetical. Replace i200 with i80, or i90, or i140. It doesn't matter, you're lack of understanding a hypothetical scenario makes it impossible for me to convey the reason for this request.

[Reynhart]

Also, thank you for taking the most literal of examples, when what I gave was a hypothetical. Replace i200 with i80, or i90, or i140. It doesn't matter, you're lack of understanding a hypothetical scenario makes it impossible for me to convey the reason for this request.

Replace it with what you want and most of the time, you'd still end up with unavoidable damage that will wreck people who don't meet the HP threshold.

Have too low HP, you'll die in Dusk Vigil the first time the final boss dive on you, you'll die in the Vault from the first Altar Pyre, etc...

And, again, if the person if low on gear, it means s/he still have other content to do, why skip it ? At each ilvl they is content that you have access to and that gives you enough gear for the next tier of content, and so on...

I undestand the rason of this request, and it's still "I want to be able to carry undergeared people". No, you shouldn't be able to.

[Reynhart]

I simply asked for a feature to return to the game that was previously existent in ARR.

It...wasn't.
You could enter coil without an ilvl requirement when it wasn't on the duty finder...and it's the same, now, for Alexander Savage.
Every duty in the DF has an ilvl requirement. But like I said, you can easily have enough gear to meet the requirement, then change it once you're Inside, providing you don't skip content.

Additionally, as I mentioned, I am not looking for this feature for the exceptional players. I just encountered this issue the other night trying to bring new players through ancient Coil content and thought it seemed quite silly that I have to go buy/craft them i125 gear just to queue for a pre-made dungeon group that is 7/8 in i220/i230 gear.

So, that's that, you carried people.