Bard in the party... thoughts?

[vp_cmc]

@Jilliebeans

Well MCH have a kit pretty similar in term of support

Let the holy war begin!

Mch has:
heavy - useful in a3s adds or a6s adds phases (2-nd boss)
stun - useful in a7s big add
mini virus that lowers physical or magical attacks (dismantle\rend mind) - useful in big aoe hits

brd has nothing to counter it.
brd has:
foe, ok, but not best choice in current group setups. and root+hypercharge increases mch dps while foe doesn't increase bards
second wind (as cross, yes)
better aoe capabilities - cool in dungeons, not important in current raids.

P.S. was playing brd since 2.0 beta, switched to mch in 3.2, it is just too good to ignore. Brd is still well geared (they share all gear but weapons) and ready for future balance changes.

[Slyqc]

@vp_cmc

That, I think you said everything else that had to be said, I dare anyone to actually try to respond to that.

[Caitlinzulu]

Everyone plays as he wants, but there is not even a little chance of me changing from my main bard. We still can do pretty damage. It took me a while to adjust to the new skills but now i wouldnt want to change

vp_cmc you claim the buff of mch is better geared to current group compositions, shure that may be so but only in statics that follow that composition. In any random party you're not shure of composition and in the (somewhat casual) raid group i'm in a brd is actually more usefull with a summoner (our raid leader) and a black mage usually coming along.

[RiceisNice]

Let the holy war begin!

Mch has:
heavy - useful in a3s adds or a6s adds phases (2-nd boss)
stun - useful in a7s big add
mini virus that lowers physical or magical attacks (dismantle\rend mind) - useful in big aoe hits
.

-Heavy is also done by healers, summoners and BLMs. It's not exclusive enough to MCH to say it's something they can hold over BRD's head.
-The stun is a shorter duration than most melee stuns, let alone paladin stuns.
- It's 5%. This is hardly something ever worth bringing up in a BRD/MCH comparison at least from a progression standpoint.

brd has nothing to counter it.
brd has:
foe, ok, but not best choice in current group setups. and root+hypercharge increases mch dps while foe doesn't increase bards
second wind (as cross, yes)

-MCH has no answer to rain of death lowering enemy's evasion
-Foe still does it's job better regards to uptime and especially healer dps (combined with rain of death).
-MCH has no self heals, and this has been a bit of an issue more than I'd like, in solo, PvP and Raids.

And on the note of hypercharge increasing MCH's dps, keep in mind it also increases BRD's dps if they are in the same party. Even if oyu took the two into a vaccum, their personal dps is still close together even in consideration of hypercahrge boosting MCH's dps. That's like saying disembowel boosts DRG's dps.

[Jilliebeans]

Let the holy war begin!

Mch has:
heavy - useful in a3s adds or a6s adds phases (2-nd boss)
stun - useful in a7s big add
mini virus that lowers physical or magical attacks (dismantle\rend mind) - useful in big aoe hits

brd has nothing to counter it.
brd has:
foe, ok, but not best choice in current group setups. and root+hypercharge increases mch dps while foe doesn't increase bards
second wind (as cross, yes)
better aoe capabilities - cool in dungeons, not important in current raids.

P.S. was playing brd since 2.0 beta, switched to mch in 3.2, it is just too good to ignore. Brd is still well geared (they share all gear but weapons) and ready for future balance changes.

Sorry this is not even a good comparison, there are things that BRD can do and MCH can NOT. i strongly agreed with Riceisnice.

[Slyqc]

At least for the moment, if only they could make so that Shadowbind could bind the Alpha orbs, I would be pretty darn happy.

[AskaRay]

At least for the moment, if only they could make so that Shadowbind was useful at all I would be pretty darn happy.

Fixed it for you

[RiceisNice]

At least for the moment, if only they could make so that Shadowbind could bind the Alpha orbs, I would be pretty darn happy.

You'd also make freeze, tri-bind and MCH's own bind work on alpha orbs for the time being as well. Bind in that scenario is a bit of a too strong of a debuff.

[RinchanNau]

- It's 5%. This is hardly something ever worth bringing up in a BRD/MCH comparison at least from a progression standpoint.

5% from Dismantle on Final Punch saved our first A8S clear from being a wipe. However little it may seem, it can make all the difference in progression.

[RiceisNice]

5% from Dismantle in Final Punch saved our first A8S clear from being a wipe. However little it may seem, it can make all the difference in progression.

Likewise for having a 5% mantra and self heals.