Bard in the party... thoughts?

[ashwich]

I main bard since my group started Alex Savage, because we didn't have a bard, or MCH, we decided it would be very helpful to have one for healers during progression.

I'm not the world's best bard, probably, but I'd like to say I'm above average. I love the DRG in my group, great guy, excellent player. I can go neck to neck with him on most encounters as a Bard. But there're variances, you're gonna get variances when you raid. If he had to move a few times too many due to unlucky debuffs, or if I had to ballad early because someone screwed up. It's up and down.

That said, Bard dps isn't bad. I have no problem with it. BUT. It's not quite as good as MCH. So every time we hit a dps check I admit the thought of "maybe I should level a MCH" crosses me, because it's essentially the same thing, but better. The feeling when you made 0 mistakes and that MCH tops you by 200 deeps.


I don't want to ask for complete class balancing, because you can't have it, but the gap is kinda big for similar classes with comparable variances

[RiceisNice]

That said, Bard dps isn't bad. I have no problem with it. BUT. It's not quite as good as MCH. So every time we hit a dps check I admit the thought of "maybe I should level a MCH" crosses me, because it's essentially the same thing, but better. The feeling when you made 0 mistakes and that MCH tops you by 200 deeps.

Relative to what MCH? The one in your party (not the case going by your example) or word-of-mouth/fflogs? If it's the latter, then you still need to consider that numbers are not 100% reflective of a job's normal potential, esp when you're looking at clear times that differ by more than a minute) or padding.

[Slyqc]

The true problem isn't really coming from the DPS (Even though it is an issue), the problem comes from the fact that Midan Savage is extremely mechanic heavy and especially on boss like A6S second boss, MCH got a stun and a Heavy, on the other side Bard got nothing, zero, nada, nichts, nichego.

[ashwich]

Relative to what MCH? The one in your party (not the case going by your example) or word-of-mouth/fflogs? If it's the latter, then you still need to consider that numbers are not 100% reflective of a job's normal potential, esp when you're looking at clear times that differ by more than a minute) or padding.

pug mch who came into our sephirot sometime ago. at this point I was still in 205 bow, he's on sephirot weapon and penta melded and pulled something like 1550. it was a much bigger difference, my 200 difference came from after i got my 220 bow, from a different lockout. The majority of the group comp is the same, sub mch for uh.... nin? granted I lost a bit of dps on ballad towards end of add phase and range LB stormcloud, boss and all the adds.

[ashwich]

The true problem isn't really coming from the DPS (Even though it is an issue), the problem comes from the fact that Midan Savage is extremely mechanic heavy and especially on boss like A6S second boss, MCH got a stun and a Heavy, on the other side Bard got nothing, zero, nada, nichts, nichego.

the silence is useful on A6S. But you're right about stun and heavy.

[Slyqc]

MCH also got a silence, with damage potency of 100 (Blunt arrow for Bard got 50) and a 25 seconds CD (Blunt Arrow got 30 seconds), I get that it's sharing recast timer with the stun but like... cmon, you use silence on first boss and you just switch to the stun on second boss. I wouldn't mind sharing a recast timer with a stun and Blunt Arrow with Bard too even if it stays at 50 damage potency while MCH got 100 damage potency on both.

[ashwich]

so bottom line is, in the current state of things, MCH is superior. But as long as you can stomach that, bard isn't in any way shape or form bad.

[enthauptet]

MCH also got a silence, with damage potency of 100 (Blunt arrow for Bard got 50) and a 25 seconds CD (Blunt Arrow got 30 seconds), I get that it's sharing recast timer with the stun but like... cmon, you use silence on first boss and you just switch to the stun on second boss. I wouldn't mind sharing a recast timer with a stun and Blunt Arrow with Bard too even if it stays at 50 damage potency while MCH got 100 damage potency on both.

It seems like the timer between mind blasts is exactly the 30 sec cooldown too lol.

[RiceisNice]

pug mch who came into our sephirot sometime ago. at this point I was still in 205 bow, he's on sephirot weapon and penta melded and pulled something like 1550. it was a much bigger difference, my 200 difference came from after i got my 220 bow, from a different lockout. The majority of the group comp is the same, sub mch for uh.... nin? granted I lost a bit of dps on ballad towards end of add phase and range LB stormcloud, boss and all the adds.

You already pointed out the factors to the difference, believe it or not.

-There's no MCH in the party, you as the BRD don't benefit from the damage bonus of hypercharge.
-You were using regen and LB, both which taxes personal dps to some degree

There's also other factors you might not have considered, such as the MCH using AoE during intermission.

The true problem isn't really coming from the DPS (Even though it is an issue), the problem comes from the fact that Midan Savage is extremely mechanic heavy and especially on boss like A6S second boss, MCH got a stun and a Heavy, on the other side Bard got nothing, zero, nada, nichts, nichego.

MCH also got a silence, with damage potency of 100 (Blunt arrow for Bard got 50) and a 25 seconds CD (Blunt Arrow got 30 seconds), I get that it's sharing recast timer with the stun but like... cmon, you use silence on first boss and you just switch to the stun on second boss. I wouldn't mind sharing a recast timer with a stun and Blunt Arrow with Bard too even if it stays at 50 damage potency while MCH got 100 damage potency on both.

And BRD has a stronger 20% execution skill (which is great for adds), higher potency on empyreal arrow (compared to gauss round) as well as bloodletter where MCH has no direct comparison to (unless you want to have it comparable to gauss round, in which case they don't have a comparison to empyreal arrow). MCH has the turret, but that's entirely unaffected by gauss barrel's damage bonus (or non-item buffs for that matter) and is a flat 80 potency, and not necessarily reliable when it comes to shooting down add.

MCH has a stun/heavy just like how BRD has warden's paeon, and neither debuffs are exclusive to MCH (esp if you're running with a paladin whom can stun much more efficiently).

[Xyrius]

You seem pretty resistant to bard being buffed so it is equal to mch, why is that?