Its april 2016 yet no healer stat weights???

[Granyala]

Crit is surely awesome if you play NoctAST / Scholar because shields do not generate overheal, but as WHM I don't like crit.
A critical heal often creates overheal because I don't cast heals wile relying on crits.

[Kaurie]

Crit is surely awesome if you play NoctAST / Scholar because shields do not generate overheal, but as WHM I don't like crit.
A critical heal often creates overheal because I don't cast heals wile relying on crits.

This only would make sense if our heals were already near the amount of peoples hitpoints. However, we heal for 3k and they have 15-25k HP. That could mean the difference in needing to cast another heal / cd or not.

For example, maybe there is a tank buster coming up that hits for 20k sending your tank down to 5k. You line up a Cure II and crit it for 8k, you're still no where near overheal. Personally, the largest heals I've done on both WHM and SCH are 12k and 13k respectively, and even that wouldn't result in overheal. If overheal is a common issue, it may be that you are healing to soon (i.e. they are at 80% and you are healing, rather than DPSing and letting them drop more).

One also has to note that the Crit damage+ means nothing to a healer from a healing standpoint (Healer DPS is another matter), so Lyrica's analysis for straight healing is on point.

The added bonus is applied to healing as well

You're going from a 5% chance at 1.5x, to a 15% chance at 1.6x to a 25% chance at 1.7x.

Astrologer priority is as follows from the folks I've been talking with on our server:

Spellspeed (until 700-800) > Determination > Piety | Crit

While I strongly disagree on the order, I mostly wanted to point out that you may want to reconsider DET placement. Determination scales very poorly for healers (approximately 200 DET = +30 average per 400 potency cure), conversely 200 CRIT would equal 5% more crit chance and a 0.1 added to the modifier (i.e. going from 5% at 1.5x to 10% at 1.6x). The average heals you are going to put out with the added CRIT floors the added with DET.

Item #2 has no bearing on healing because your heals aren't doing damage (unless there's research somewhere that indicates critted spells also get a bonus in their potency in a similar magnitude to damage spells/abilities/WS).

They indeed do.

[Katlyna]

The problem with Crit though is, Crit = random overheals. Likewise unless you are shielding as an astro... random overheals are NOT useful. While clearing raid content your goal is to cover survival and recover damage as quickly as possible while minimizing overheal. Crit is useful when shielding or when hit point pools are so large that a random crit = one less heal. FFXIV isn't really designed like this... its EXTREMELY spam happy. Consequently I strongly disagree with padding crit unless you are shielding.

Likewise current raiding content, the most important thing is that you reach your position and your next heal hits in time. That is spell speed hands down. Once you learn fights and tighten up to where you know the heartbeat of a fight and its exact rotation, then you can let up off spell speed. But by then you're learning a new fight where you benefit greatly from said spell speed.

If Determination carried more weight I might put it before spell speed but it does not. So I strongly encourage (whitemage slot) Astrologers to go Spellspeed > Det > Piety/Crit.

[Kaurie]

Crit is useful when shielding or when hit point pools are so large that a random crit = one less heal. FFXIV isn't really designed like this....

This is precisely how FFXIV is designed. No one takes damage and then all of a sudden everyone takes 10k. That crit Medica means you cast it once instead of twice.

Just to add:

EDIT, thanks for pointing out the calculation issues and I have adjusted below

Determination It takes 400 Determination to exceed the standard deviation of your heals. That is to say, 200 DET = 30 HP more per Physick, 400 DET = 60 HP more per Physick on average. Where the standard deviation of a physick, of my last testing, is 55HP. That is to say about ~70% of the heals fall within that +/-55HP window. For my calculation, 100 DET = +30 hp. Physick does near 3.5k (actually a bit more), so added DET = 30/3500 = 0.4%.

Added Healing Power (200 DET): 0.8%

Spell Speed It takes a lot of this to become useful to really be noticeable. 26.5 SpS = 0.01 reduction. Therefore, 100 spell speed reduces by 0.037 seconds. Spell Speed does however affect your potency on your HoT. I think the effect of this is similar to DET, but as it also lowers you recast time this is more desirable. For my calculation, 100 SS = 0.037 shaved off a 2.5 GCD which means your added healing power for 200 ss is 2*(0.037/2.5) + HoT potency bonus.

Added Healing Power (200 SS): 2.96% without HoTs, ~3.00% with HoTs

Critical Rate and Severity For every 200 Crit, you have a 5% chance to crit more and a 0.1x modifier. As the modifier is in question, I'll leave this out of the calculations.. The added healing power is then (Chance x Added Value) = (5% x 0.5) = 0.05 x 1.5 = 2.5% added to your healing power.

Added Healing Power (200 CRIT): 2.5%

Now, yes, crit is unpredictable, but the added healing power is 6.25x greater for CRIT than DET, and is 1.69x greater for CRIT than SS

Of course these are simple calculations out of a much more complex situation, but the general idea is still there.

[Katlyna]

Spell Speed It takes a lot of this to become useful to reall be noticeable. I am at I think 600 SS with 2.47 CD or so. Like every 100 SS you get a -0.01 seconds off your GCD- Say you had 1050 SS, that's ~ 700 from the default which should give you 2.38 seconds GCD. That means every 36 casts you will get a free heal. In terms of saving people, no one should be that close to the brink of death that 0.07 seconds means clearing and not. Spell Speed does however affect your potency on your HoT. I think the effect of this is similar to DET, but as it also lowers you recast time this is more desirable. For my calculation, 100 SS = 0.01 shaved off a 2.5 GCD which means your added healing power is 0.01/2.5 + HoT potency bonus.

Your spell speed calculations look wrong. This is what I have stripping my Astros clothing off while under Diurnal:
864 - 2.19
821 - 2.20
802 - 2.21
765 - 2.22
703 - 2.25
605 - 2.28
569 - 2.29
542 - 2.30
515 - 2.31
506 - 2.31
473 - 2.33
464 - 2.33
418 - 2.35
372 - 2.37
354 - 2.37

[Kaurie]

Your spell speed calculations look wrong. This is what I have stripping my Astros clothing off while under Diurnal:
765 - 2.22
703 - 2.25
605 - 2.28
569 - 2.29
542 - 2.30
515 - 2.31
506 - 2.31
473 - 2.33
464 - 2.33
418 - 2.35
372 - 2.37
354 - 2.37

Is that your cast time or recast time? Healers have a shorter cast than recast time, which is important to take into account - Thanks for throwing the numbers though, I am at work and was operating from memory.

If GCD recast follows the same trend, it looks like 100 SS = 0.04 not 0.01 decrease. That would bump up the healing power to 4x what I said, so instead of 0.4% it's a 1.6% increase or 2.4% with HoTs. That's still 1/3 of CRIT though.

That also means it would take +625 (979 total) ss, not +2.5k ss to reach the 1/10th faster healing. Apologies for the error.

EDIT: Just realized you said while under Diurnal, with the 5% buff so that's with that I am guessing. Can you show the difference without the buff as well?

[Granyala]

Spell Speed It takes a lot of this to become useful to reall be noticeable. I am at I think 600 SS with 2.47 CD or so. Like every 100 SS you get a -0.01 seconds off your GCD- Say you had 1050 SS, that's ~ 700 from the default which should give you 2.38 seconds GCD. That means every 36 casts you will get a free heal. In terms of saving people, no one should be that close to the brink of death that 0.07 seconds means clearing and not. Spell Speed does however affect your potency on your HoT. I think the effect of this is similar to DET, but as it also lowers you recast time this is more desirable. For my calculation, 100 SS = 0.01 shaved off a 2.5 GCD which means your added healing power is 0.01/2.5 + HoT potency bonus.

Added Healing Power (100 SS): 0.4% without HoTs, ~0.8% with HoTs

Critical Rate and Severity For every 200 Crit, you have a 5% chance to crit more and a 0.1x modifier. As the modifier is in question, I'll leave this out of the calculations.. The added healing power is then (Chance x Added Value) = (5% x 1.5) = 0.05 x 1.5 = 7.5% added to your healing power.

Added Healing Power (100 CRIT): 7.5%

Now, yes, crit is unpredictable, but the added healing power is 18.75x greater for CRIT than DET.

Your data is flawed:
Spell speed: reduces cast time by 0.01s for every 26.5SS (according to the data earlier in this thread).
So 100SS/26.5 ~ .0377 reduction of cast time.
(2.5-0.0377)/(2.5/100) = 98.5% of cast time. Roughly 1.5% faster cast times. A.k.a. 1.5% more throughput.
Add to that the HoT bonus which I cannot calculate right now but I think you'll easily end up in the 2%+ range.

Crit: 200 crit = 5% chance -> 5% * 0.5!! = 2.5%.
If it doesn't crit you would end up doing 1.0 instead of 1.5. Calculating each crit as an ADDITIONAL 1.5 is wrong.
A modifier of 1.6 would make that a 3% gain.

Sadly I do not have any data for DET.

Something seems off though. According to this napkin math, SS would have double the value compared to crit per stat point. So I do think source data is questionable.
DEVs aren't stupid, they will balance the secondary stats somehow.

Another thought: someone mentioned that 200(?) ACC would add 20% hit chance. Depending on our base hit chance this stat has the chance to outclass every other secondary by a whole order of magnitude, making it the best stat even if it does nothing for the healing. (not sure how important healer DPS is, as I do not raid high end)

I have to admit though: getting sub 5% performance increases for putting in Grade Vs in all of my slots is woefully ... underwhelming. :/

[Kaurie]

Snip/

Thanks for pointing out the issues Not sure if it was apparent, but I posted my calculations, so that people could point out errors as such. I'll adjust my original post.

TLDR the added healing power is 6.25x greater for CRIT than DET, and is 1.69x greater for CRIT than SS

CRIT 2.5% increase
SS 1.69% increase
DET 0.4% increase

On this note, the above is really for WHM/AST only. SCH the increase of CRIT is more substantial, as Spell Speed doesn't reduce the cast time of Eos/Selene AND critical hits from Eos/Selene proc a spell speed buff on you. This is coupled with the double shield applied with Adlo

[Granyala]

TLDR the added healing power is 6.25x greater for CRIT than DET, and is 1.69x greater for CRIT than SS[/I][/B]

Yet since we still talk about a delta of <1% (I do NOT believe that DET is that bad, makes no sense at all).
So for all intents and purposes: in practice it is completely irrelevant what you meld. The budget just doesn't allow for notable effects to happen.

[Katlyna]

I have to admit though: getting sub 5% performance increases for putting in Grade Vs in all of my slots is woefully ... underwhelming. :/

And isn't it technically less than that since you are comparing IV vs Vs... in which case the difference is only 1.5% or 2.5% depending on which stat you are using.