So, what's with the lack of Machinist in DF?

[Velhart]

snip

Keeping the healers from running out of MP in raids is a damn good utility. Silencing, stunning, binding, and applying heavy is pretty good utility and I use all of them. We already do good, comparable damage to other DPS classes. Everything you suggest is unnecessary, potentially game breaking, and hard to balance between BRD and MCH, and the entire structure of the game in general. That point forward, they have to take account those buffs and how they affect the fight. Its a mess and harder to program/balance in than you believe. The game doesn't magically get better from adding stuff like this, there are tons of things you have to consider. I have my complaints on the jobs, but you just take it on a extreme route.

[Kaurie]

Keeping the healers from running out of MP in raids is a damn good utility. Silencing, stunning, binding, and applying heavy is pretty good utility and I use all of them. We already do good, comparable damage to other DPS classes. Everything you suggest is unnecessary, potentially game breaking, and hard to balance between BRD and MCH, and the entire structure of the game in general. That point forward, they have to take account those buffs and how they affect the fight. Its a mess and harder to program/balance in than you believe. The game doesn't magically get better from adding stuff like this, there are tons of things you have to consider. I have my complaints on the jobs, but you just take it on a extreme route.

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Keeping the healers from running out of MP in raids is a damn good utility. Silencing, stunning, binding, and applying heavy is pretty good utility and I use all of them. We already do good, comparable damage to other DPS classes. Everything you suggest is unnecessary, potentially game breaking, and hard to balance between BRD and MCH, and the entire structure of the game in general. That point forward, they have to take account those buffs and how they affect the fight. Its a mess and harder to program/balance in than you believe. The game doesn't magically get better from adding stuff like this, there are tons of things you have to consider. I have my complaints on the jobs, but you just take it on a extreme route.

You know what is amazing utility and also saves MP? Storm's Path; 10% Damage Reduction. By reducing damage your taking your saving your healers so much more MP because they need to use less of their big emergency healing. If your failing or wiping a Summoner can rez instead of healers saving a ton of MP.

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

I'd love it if they removed DPS and actually added Utility classes too! =3

[ErzaScarlet77]

MCHs and BRDs makes every run feels so slow.
not to mention the lack of melee lb.

when i queue as drg and i get paired with brd/mch and the heal/tank are non dpsing whm and pld, it feels like i do 80% of the damage

[Velhart]

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

That is more towards a discussion if MCH/BRD deserve to be on the same line as other DPS. Argument was more that the jobs do have heavy utility, rather if its ones people agree with or not. Making what he suggests is the extreme route. It isn't to say that BRD/MCH shouldn't have better utility, but it is there. If anything, it should be revamped so BRD and MCH have more synergy on the support side. Right now you take one based on your party set up.

I'd love it if they removed DPS and actually added Utility classes too! =3

So basically BRD from FFXI? Sounds terrible and doesn't make sense in how this game is structured.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That is more towards a discussion if MCH/BRD deserve to be on the same line as other DPS. Argument was more that the jobs do have heavy utility, rather if its ones people agree with or not. Making what he suggests is the extreme route. It isn't to say that BRD/MCH shouldn't have better utility, but it is there. If anything, it should be revamped so BRD and MCH have more synergy on the support side. Right now you take one based on your party set up.

MCH
Dismantling Shot (Replaces Dismantle)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Slug Shot;
Combo Potency: 200;
Combo Bonus: Absorbs 50% damage dealt as HP and 10% of the target's damage dealt is immediately healed.
Duration: 20s

Rend Mind
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
If delivered as the enemy is casting, Delivers a second attack with a potency of 200.
Silences target for 0.25 seconds.
Cooldown: 30 seconds.
Instant.


BRD:
Songs become stances, and are now instant cast:

Mage's Ballad
Slowly refreshes MP of all nearby party members.
You are slowed by 30% while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

Army's Paeon
Slowly refreshes TP of all nearby party members.
You are slowed by 30% while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

The Wanderer's Minuet
Increases critical chance of all nearby party members by 8%.
Increases all damage dealt by 15%.
TP and MP is slowly drained while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

Battle Voice ((Could be renamed to Voice of the Valkyries or something.))
Resurrects target to 100% Health, Mana, and TP and they are immune to damage for 2 seconds.
3s cast; 300 second CD.

Swiftsong
Bard's Movement Speed in combat is increased by 5%.
Grants 25% increased movement speed to group. It suspends during combat.
This is a permanent buff you can leave on now.

So basically BRD from FFXI? Sounds terrible and doesn't make sense in how this game is structured.

Honestly, the Holy Trinity has ruined so many MMOs its not even funny or fun anymore. I agree there should be roles, but "Utility", "Support", "Puller", "Crowd Control" ect ect seems dead.

[Kiyouma]

I use MCH for most of my endgame activities and I can totally understand why it's not desirable because of dps output. My dps felt mediocre compared to other classes until I reached 60 and got proper gear and all my job skills. With all that I dish out quite a bit of damage and feel like I can almost keep up with the melee jobs.

In the end I play MCH for the fun of it not so much the practicality (which I'm sure is the major turn off).

I have had people leave in dungeons (pre 50) and claim they don't want to deal with a long run with a mch lol.

[Bigcat9715]

2 words, gauss barrel. I loved that class until they gave us gauss barrel. I've had a lot of fun playing it in Crystal tower this past week.

Actually, I've been playing casting classes since the release of ARR, so wanderer's minuet and gauss barrel don't bother me. In fact I feel right at home with wanderer's minuet turned on (don't know about gauss barrel, yet). But I do see the problem with both jobs, and how the abilities drastically changes them.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I use MCH for most of my endgame activities and I can totally understand why it's not desirable because of dps output. My dps felt mediocre compared to other classes until I reached 60 and got proper gear and all my job skills. With all that I dish out quite a bit of damage and feel like I can almost keep up with the melee jobs.

In the end I play MCH for the fun of it not so much the practicality (which I'm sure is the major turn off).

I have had people leave in dungeons (pre 50) and claim they don't want to deal with a long run with a mch lol.

Well, with the way "griefing" is being handled in PvP GMs are banning people for making the game more unfun for others. Does that mean I can report all MCHs and Bards who also do this in my group and get them banned since they make instances slower?

No, i'm joking, but you can see why people leave. Lol.

[Bigcat9715]

snip

I actually had someone congratulate me on my machinist performance in a pre 50 dungeon, because when all of the targets were grouped up I would aoe them down, then she said I was doing better then most vets, and I didn't know if I should take that as a good thing or a bad thing. All I was doing was buffs, hot shot, head gaze, and spamming spread shot until I ran low on tp then either use promotion or invigorate, then repeat.