Tank Etiquette Between Tanks in Raids

[chidarake]

although i agree that who ever has intial hate is the mt the fight long barring them dying.

that being said sometimes provoke has a place as if your ot you have no way of knowing if you are 2nd or 3rd on the list so popping provoke and waiting a sec before continuing your attacks will put you 2nd leaving the mt as the mt. this will ensure that if the mt dies the boss will auto switch to you instead of chasing some random person.

admittedly chances are youll be 2nd or 3rd on the list anyways but you never can quite tell.

as for any 2 tank raid scenario you wont be fighting over hate at all and youll only use provoke on intended tank swaps or if mt dies.

[Torunya]

no way of knowing if you are 2nd or 3rd on the list so popping provoke and waiting a sec before continuing your attacks

Rather than your method, I propose leaving provoke to the event the MT actually dies. Not before, to avoid coming across as a douche for provoking unnecessarily off the MT. ^^; As a tank you won't have any problem being the 2nd on the enmity list anyway, which you can also easily see by paying attention to the little bar on your job icon in the party list. Just in case anyone didn't know this.

[chidarake]

Rather than your method, I propose leaving provoke to the event the MT actually dies. Not before, to avoid coming across as a douche for provoking unnecessarily off the MT. ^^; As a tank you won't have any problem being the 2nd on the enmity list anyway, which you can also easily see by paying attention to the little bar on your job icon in the party list. Just in case anyone didn't know this.

just pointing out a method personally i dont use it cus normally i mt in 24 man. and if i aint mt i assume everything will be fine and blindly dps instead

[SpiritMuse]

As a tank you won't have any problem being the 2nd on the enmity list anyway, which you can also easily see by paying attention to the little bar on your job icon in the party list. Just in case anyone didn't know this.

In 8-mans, yes. In 24-mans, not so much. You can't see the enmity of the people in the other parties so it's a guessing game as to where exactly you are on the 24-man aggro list.

[Torunya]

In 8-mans, yes. In 24-mans, not so much. You can't see the enmity of the people in the other parties so it's a guessing game as to where exactly you are on the 24-man aggro list.

Come on now, this isn't even an issue. In 24-mans there are at least 3 tanks. So if the MT dies to the raid boss, you have 2 other OT's available. Provoke the boss, and start building your enmity combo. You shouldn't be advocating a method so fragile as provoking off of the MT while he is still alive just for the purpose of becoming 2nd on the enmity list, while also risk turning the boss around. Please don't do this. That's just bad tanking conduct.

tl:dr: Save Provoke for cases where MT dies/tank swaps. Not before.

[chidarake]

Come on now, this isn't even an issue. In 24-mans there are at least 3 tanks. So if the MT dies to the raid boss, you have 2 other OT's available. Provoke the boss, and start building your enmity combo. You shouldn't be advocating a method so fragile as provoking off of the MT while he is still alive just for the purpose of becoming 2nd on the enmity list, while also risk turning the boss around. Please don't do this. That's just bad tanking conduct.

tl:dr: Save Provoke for cases where MT dies/tank swaps. Not before.

i dont think he was advocating it at all just pointing out you dont know your position in 24man for certain.
heck i dont even advocate it i was just pointing out a potential reason that people may be doing it.

and like my previous post any decent tank will be most likely either be no2 or 3 in the list regardless of using provoke or not. however in dps stance you can not guarantee it without nerfing your damage for extra enmity.
as i can virtually guarantee that as my main BLM i wil be very high up that list if not no2 in 24 man raids due to most tanks and dps not really caring to much about the effort they put in.

plus surely you have seen any number of times bosses turning on dps as mt dies in all 24man content and then the boss just picking people off cus the other two tanks forgot they are suppose to tank after mt dies.

[SpiritMuse]

You shouldn't be advocating a method so fragile as provoking off of the MT while he is still alive just for the purpose of becoming 2nd on the enmity list, while also risk turning the boss around. Please don't do this. That's just bad tanking conduct.

i dont think he was advocating it at all just pointing out you dont know your position in 24man for certain.

Chidarake got it. I was not actually commenting on the tactic at all, just reacting to the ever so slightly condescending statement about watching the party list, because that does not work in 24-man content.

[Torunya]

Chidarake got it. I was not actually commenting on the tactic at all, just reacting to the ever so slightly condescending statement about watching the party list, because that does not work in 24-man content.

I never meant to be condescending, I apologize if you perceived it that way. But I am curious of your definition of commenting as opposed to "reacting". But let's leave it there.

plus surely you have seen any number of times bosses turning on dps as mt dies in all 24man content and then the boss just picking people off cus the other two tanks forgot they are suppose to tank after mt dies.

With all honesty, then the other two tanks are either asleep at the wheel or just plain bad. Besides this is a highly situational example. Any proper tank would, in your example, use Provoke on the boss and take over as MT. Which is the only point I'm trying to make here. Provoke if MT dies, not before. You provoke when it is necessary. Any spot you have on the enmity list before that is irrelevant.

I don't really understand this obsession with needing to be 2nd on the enmity list. If Provoke did not exist, then I could understand why. But luckily we have Provoke, an ability meant to be used precisely for cases like this should the MT die. I don't know what else to tell you.