Anima Weapons. Putting things into perspective.

[Kaurie]

It can certainly be done in one week, but I'm not sure that it really matches that last comment.

esoterics:

Expert = 60 + 80 = 140
60 = 100 + 40 (ranges between 30-60 iirc, so averaged 40) = 140
50 = 120
Leveling = 100
Trial = 60
Frontline = 50

That's 140 + 140 + 120 + 60 + 100 + 50 = 610 per day

Void Ark = 50 esoterics
Midas = 20, cannot remember at work. = 80 minimum per week, tho likely on average you'll run each floor twice (4 drops, 8 people) - so 160 per week

That's 610 * 7 + 50 + 160 per week = 4480 = 2.5 pieces

Then comes week two, on that tuesday you do your roulettes for 610 + your void ark + 50 plus your midas + 160 = anotehr 820 to finish off your last half + your CT runs. So boom, you've got it in 8 days.

Once you take the esoterics from two Void Ark and Midas clears into account, it requires just over nine days of doing every roulette, every day, on a level 60 job (since you won't get the esoterics from the level 50, leveling, or trial roulettes if you do them on a job that's not level 60).

I don't know for how many people that's "daily/weekly stuff they're doing anyway". It's certainly not my normal routine.

You're doing the stuff you're doing anyway, you just now are doing it on your main for 1 week instead of leveling your alts.

[Ibi]

I actually had all the numbers in my post originally, then edited them out. :P

esoterics:

Expert = 60 + 80 = 140
60 = 100 + 40 (ranges between 30-60 iirc, so averaged 40) = 140
50 = 120
Leveling = 100
Trial = 60
Frontline = 50

That's 140 + 140 + 120 + 60 + 100 + 50 = 610 per day

Level 60 roulette average 146, so close enough on that. I don't know about other data centers but, since the introduction of the Feast, Frontline roulette queues on Primal are at least an hour, if they pop at all, so I skipped it when doing my math.

Void Ark = 40 esoterics
Midas = 20 or 30, cannot remember at work. = 80-120 minimum per week, tho likely on average you'll run each floor twice (4 drops, 8 people) - so 160-240 per week

Void Ark is 50 and Midas is 20 per floor.

That's 610 * 7 + 40 + 200 per week = 4510 = 2.5 pieces

Skipping Frontlines gives us 566 per day, for 3962 per week. Adding the raids brings that to 4172.

Then comes week two, on that tuesday you do your roulettes for 610 + your void ark + 40 plus your midas + 200 = anotehr 850 to finish off your last half + your CT runs. So boom, you've got it in 8 days.

Adding the second week's raids brings it to 4382, leaving 1018 remaining. Two more days of roulettes would get you there.

You're doing the stuff you're doing anyway, you just now are doing it on your main for 1 week instead of leveling your alts.

All that said, my point was more that I'd be surprised if most people are doing expert, level 60, level 50, leveling, and trial roulette every single day. This reddit thread certainly suggests they're not.

If you assume a fairly quick 20 minutes per run for the dungeons, that's almost an hour and a half just in the instances. It's likely longer than that, and if you're a DPS you can add queue times on top of it. A lot of the people in that thread are saying they only play for a few hours a night, so that would essentially be almost the entirety of their play time.

[Kaurie]

I actually had all the numbers in my post originally, then edited them out. :P



Level 60 roulette average 146, so close enough on that. I don't know about other data centers but, since the introduction of the Feast, Frontline roulette queues on Primal are at least an hour, if they pop at all, so I skipped it when doing my math.

I am on Primal, but I skip frontlines - this is made up pretty easily by the fact I do hunts. People could get esos via Feast too if they wanted.

Void Ark is 50 and Midas is 20 per floor.

Ah thanks for the corrections

The main point is, it's very easy and quick to get with little to no grinding - and can be obtained in 8 days quite easily.

All that said, my point was more that I'd be surprised if most people are doing expert, level 60, level 50, leveling, and trial roulette every single day. This reddit thread certainly suggests they're not.

If you assume a fairly quick 20 minutes per run for the dungeons, that's almost an hour and a half just in the instances. It's likely longer than that, and if you're a DPS you can add queue times on top of it. A lot of the people in that thread are saying they only play for a few hours a night, so that would essentially be almost the entirety of their play time.

That is fair, I normally skip roulettes but will be doing them. So in that sense, you are right - it's not what I would be doing anyway. I more meant that it's not this odd thing, like running Alex 1 200x. It's just your basic roulettes to speed it up, or your basic activities to get it.

20 minutes per run I think is a good average. I'd say:
50 roulette = 16 minutes
60 roulette = 15 minutes
leveling roulette = 30 minutes
expert roulette = 20 minutes
Trial roulette = 10 minutes

These estimates are based off what I usually encounter, and I often encounter bad DPS - it's made up by me DPSing a lot as a SCH though. As you said, it's 1.5 hours in instances - but that doesn't sound odd to me. This game has virtually no content outside of instances - for me I do hunts/beast tribes, but that doesn't take long.

I think that's where we differ. I'd consider running all five roulettes every day to be grinding. Not very intense grinding, but it's certainly not something I'd choose to do on its own merits.

Forum limit reached.

I guess I only consider it a grind if you do the same thing over and over and over. For example, running Alex 1 200x - killing the same mob over and over - running the same trial over and over. Roulettes give you a different dungeon, so you'd be doing 1.5 hours of varied content a total of 8x.

[Ibi]

The main point is, it's very easy and quick to get with little to no grinding - and can be obtained in 8 days quite easily.

I think that's where we differ. I'd consider running all five roulettes every day to be grinding. Not very intense grinding, but it's certainly not something I'd choose to do on its own merits.

[randysquirrel]

Do you mean 4 210 relics?

yes four 210s which I will prob just upgrade as esos build up (I will finish my main today and the rest im not bothered about doing quickly). some people have more.
I certainly didn't do 2800 alex runs for those tho, anyone that has the mental fortitude to do such a thing is a better man than I. I just did a mix of things, maps, beasts, and other stuff that just accumulated tomes without me noticing. it's not nearly as bad as some people make out

[Mindy_Macready]

I think it's fair to say a lot of people were overwhelmed at the start of the 210 relic phase that they just said "Nope."

For one, it looked like a ridiculous amount of work versus the time they had in game. For another, it could've just been a protest for something they perceived as "not fun or interesting" (running the same content we'd been running since HW came out, rather than some new mechanic, probably did it for a lot of people).

A fun thought-experiment I've had is what SE would've done if the majority of the player base just sat on their hands in protest, rather than attempt the relic.

[Rawrz]

The 210 relic did get nerfed in a sense. The crafted items are no longer specialist locked since 3.2.

[Ibi]

A fun thought-experiment I've had is what SE would've done if the majority of the player base just sat on their hands in protest, rather than attempt the relic.

Given how long it normally takes them to improve content that people aren't engaging in, if they even do anything, I suspect not much differently than they already have.

Just look at Diadem, which obviously involved a huge amount of work, but that's been mostly ignored by most of the player base since the nerf at the end of November. They made it a little more appealing with 3.2 and the reduced prices (though it's still been more-or-less empty any time I've been in there), but by and large it looks like they're content to wait until the next iteration of it in 3.3, rather than doing anything to fix what we already have.

The 210 relic did get nerfed in a sense. The crafted items are no longer specialist locked since 3.2.

The crafted items certainly weren't insignificant, but most of the people that gave up on it likely never even got to that point of the process.

[Aquaslash]

With all this talk about relic vs raiding, I'd like to know what radiers think nowadays about how the relic should progress

[Kaurie]

With all this talk about relic vs raiding, I'd like to know what radiers think nowadays about how the relic should progress

I raid, and I think that the current relic stage is a huge step up from previous.

I'd like to see more substance of the whole thing (a more involved story, challenging content) - but I get that isn't really what the relic is about. Accepting that, I think this level of grind in 2.3 is appropriate.

yes four 210s which I will prob just upgrade as esos build up (I will finish my main today and the rest im not bothered about doing quickly). some people have more.
I certainly didn't do 2800 alex runs for those tho, anyone that has the mental fortitude to do such a thing is a better man than I. I just did a mix of things, maps, beasts, and other stuff that just accumulated tomes without me noticing. it's not nearly as bad as some people make out

That is impressive I am almost done my 2nd 210, so four is a good feat for sure. Most of my friends are still finishing their first.

I definitely agree that running alex over and over is crazy, it was definitely the fastest way to farm the pieces, but also the fastest way for me to uninstall. I did about 30 A1N and 20 A4N runs in total. Other than that for both relics, I've done roulettes/beast tribes/hunts/generic tome rewards.