I just don't get it.

[Nutz]

I for one i'm no where close to have\achiev what you have, and somethings i'll never be able to get that you have. I agree that you should have something special for playing the game that long other than a tattoo, isn't that what veteran awards are for?

I suppose veteran rewards are for that, though they're also meaningless glamour/ mounts/ etc. I think what melisande was getting at was the fact that in previous MMOs something like a relic weapon might have taken even longer to get, but would have lasting value. The way it's implemented in this game unless you quickly grind it out immediately it's either outdated or close to it by the time you get it, nevermind 6 months down the line.

In one of several efforts to make this game accessible to new players the devs neglected to make any items give a lasting advantage, and it's difficult to see how they could given the state of itemization. For a weapon to be useful one year from now it would have to be insanely powerful today -- objectively and significantly more powerful than anything else out there. Even so, 2 years form now it would be trash because all we really have to make weapons powerful are weapon damage and main stat and those things are constantly climbing.

To have items that can be useful even after new items have been introduced you need to slow down the power creep and add more interesting stats.

FFXI had a wonderful assortment of stats (IMO). One of the most sought after weapons in the game had very low damage, but due to other game mechanics and the unique properties of the item people still wanted it several years after release, even after level cap increases (referring to the kraken club in case you were wondering -- occasionally attacked 2-8 times). There's room for much more interesting stats that could make gear last longer if they'd also stop increasing main stat numbers so dramatically.

I'm not even advocating that they slow down on releasing gear really, just saying that it's not necessary for every other patch to include definite upgrades for every single slot on every single job. Of course, you really could get by with less gear added overall. I never quite understood the very rigid gear set structure that they use, but I suppose it's just another layer of accessibility (ie. as a tank everything 'of fending' is for me, and maybe some 'of slaying' stuff sometimes, and nothing else ever).

[Krissey]

Most the stuff from veteran stuff I don't even use it collecting dust though in my inn closet, so I guess its relevant in taking up memory for the game.

So what do you want? What do you really want? You want raids to be exclusive and to have super epic awesome graphics that only like 10% of the player base has access to and you to be one of them so you can stand around in Ironforge, I mean Idllyshire and have all the noobs gawk at you? Do you want validation of every one gazing at you in awe of your pro-l33t skills (aka RNG blessed you by dropping your stuff...it could have been anything on the loot table).

What do you want to "Show for all your time" ? Do you want raid tiers to last a year and no updates to the game so you can stand around and "enjoy" the best possible gear with nothing new to do for a year? No you don't want that you'd just quit playing if it went untouched for so long.

So what do you want?

[Gardes]

I for one i'm no where close to have\achiev what you have, and somethings i'll never be able to get that you have. I agree that you should have something special for playing the game that long other than a tattoo, isn't that what veteran awards are for?

I'm pretty sure they meant things they have achieved IN the game, not trivial items that you get JUST for being around longer than someone. By your logic, you could be playing for 6 months while I pay for the subs for 1 year but not play any of the game and log in on the last month, get close to your ilvl in that one month and consider myself having achieved more than you did.

[odintius]

So what do you want?

Nothing seem you assuming allot on your own their all I want is some depth to the game currently its not IMO currently to me it pretty mediocre game I don't even consider this a actual mmo, I've seen ftp games have more depth. I'm sure the well play those game will be a retort or to that effect will be applied, but i kinda already do though. I come back do story do the two dungeon that five year old could do and wait till nerf to the gear come because its the next patch trash gear afterward anyways. /shrug

[Krissey]

Nothing seem you assuming allot on your own their all I want is some depth to the game currently its not IMO currently to me it pretty mediocre game I don't even consider this a actual mmo, I've seen ftp games have more depth. I'm sure the well play those game will be a retort or to that effect will be applied, but i kinda already do though. I come back do story do the two dungeon that five year old could do and wait till nerf to the gear come because its the next patch trash gear afterward anyways. /shrug

Please explain what you mean by "Depth". Don't use buzzwords, they don't convey anything. They're meaningless. Where do you want depth? In raids? In dungeons? Do you want giant, super long dungeons that take hours to complete that are fully realized enemy cities? Do you want layered raids that start at a top floor and have 12 floors down? That's a "Deep" raid. Do you want "Depth" in character customization where you can have multiple specs per Job with multiple different ways to build said spec?

Do you want more content in the outside world? You're not saying anything. You're just using buzzwords to express some vague sense of dissatisfaction. What do you consider a "deep" game? You mentioned "Free to Play" games. Defense of the Ancients? League of Legends? How are they "deep"? Is DotA deeper than LoL?

How would you enrich and deepen the game? What would give you a sense of satisfaction? I'm trying to have a real discussion here to pull answers out that might help that game grow. What is a "real" MMO and how is this a fake one?

What is "depth" and what does it look like? Is it objective or subjective?

Edit: I am assuming a lot based on other veteran players of veteran games who also are "dissatisfied" with the state of the game, and it's typically for those reasons - back in the "good old days" when they were the only ones with anything "cool" or "good". They're usually exclusionists. They want to exclude everyone else so they can feel special.

That doesn't appear to be your case though. You seem to want a more complex and deeper game. How would you increase depth and complexity?

[Welsper59]

I'm not even advocating that they slow down on releasing gear really, just saying that it's not necessary for every other patch to include definite upgrades for every single slot on every single job. Of course, you really could get by with less gear added overall. I never quite understood the very rigid gear set structure that they use, but I suppose it's just another layer of accessibility (ie. as a tank everything 'of fending' is for me, and maybe some 'of slaying' stuff sometimes, and nothing else ever).

At this point in the game, at least until they give a HUGE heads up on revamping the system, it is absolutely mandatory that they keep going up on the ilvl. The players, unbeknownst to themselves, have an expectation in regards to content and reward. We want content to be harder and give us worthwhile rewards. No ones going to find it worth their time and effort to run through Savage just so that their a drop from it might offer a better ratio of a secondary stat for one job, while the rest might get something worse or just outright pointless.

Ignoring the fact that FFXI was not gear-locked in combat, the only reason XI got away with so much diversity with gear was because of how situational each piece was. If you were trying to be good at the game, you didn't stick to your WS set while you were trying to TP build. You didn't leave your Fast Cast gear on by mid-cast. No, you would macro a switch of gear to benefit from the wide array of stats that benefit you. In other words, that gear you macro generally sees action for a second or two when you do something related to it. Sometimes, you wouldn't even see it on your character by the time it swaps out lol. Not exactly material to be "cherished" outside of the numbers it represents.

We don't have anything like that because this game is not designed to handle that. Even if they did introduce side gear to remove that definitive upgrade next patch, absolutely no one with any sense of logic would find it to be truly worth their time if it were locked behind something like Savage. They would have to literally redo the entire stat system in order to introduce worthwhile side gear options. Even then, it'll come down to a singular BiS system without the ability to swap gear mid-combat. So along with that, they'd have to redo it so that we'd be playing FFXI, basically. WoW had a wide array of fun/useful/useless stats on their gear, but just like here, it came down to one BiS set. Alternative gearing only existed outside of endgame there, which is why FFXI essentially perfected horizontal gear progression.

If what you meant was that the upgrades were miniscule, then that absolutely would not work with the current system. If 6 months for the next tier of max ilvl isn't long enough to cherish your gear, then what realistically is? Why would anyone bother spending their time doing new content enough to last until the next cycle, when the difference with the new and old stuff is negligible?

Edit: This got cut off and its a rather important part to the tone of this lol. If what you were saying was encompassing your mention of adding interesting stats in order to keep gear relevant, then yeah, I totally agree obviously. It's just that based on the way you were arguing the subject, it sounds like you were looking at one being separable from the other, which is something I don't agree with.

[odintius]

That doesn't appear to be your case though. You seem to want a more complex and deeper game. How would you increase depth and complexity?

Suggest clicking my name look at some of my resent post if curious and play other mmo's everyone has opinions on it. The current gear progression has no meaning beyond savage the dungeon should have entry of the gear with that of esto/upgraded being the average entry lvl 205-210 prefer 210 give more reason to actually upgrade them currently don't have to. Also if I knew the duegeons later on were actually going to provide a challenge I might actually try to cap my tomes ect.yes I know the duty finder options to it should be set that way to begin with for newer content.

Materia system to me is a joke know if it had more depth like back in 1.0 than what we have now I be OK with it. Currently it suffers as much as gear progression great if doing savage but don't really have to bother with materia. Materia should be the entry point for some horizontal progression in this game which it clearly lacks IMO, and not over board either to much of anything can be bad like pure vertical progression and not just stat increases traits/abilities/spells materia give some flavor beside dull acc increase whoo thx materia.

[Atmora]

But I don't get it, steel is heavier then feathers.

[papichulo123]

op its to long dont feel like reading

[Krissey]

Suggest clicking my name look at some of my resent post if curious and play other mmo's everyone has opinions on it. The current gear progression has no meaning beyond savage the dungeon should have entry of the gear with that of esto/upgraded being the average entry lvl 205-210 prefer 210 give more reason to actually upgrade them currently don't have to. Also if I knew the duegeons later on were actually going to provide a challenge I might actually try to cap my tomes ect.yes I know the duty finder options to it should be set that way to begin with for newer content.

Materia system to me is a joke know if it had more depth like back in 1.0 than what we have now I be OK with it. Currently it suffers as much as gear progression great if doing savage but don't really have to bother with materia. Materia should be the entry point for some horizontal progression in this game which it clearly lacks IMO, and not over board either to much of anything can be bad like pure vertical progression.

I have played other MMOs. This is the best one. I've played WoW, Aion, Tera, Blade & Soul, Elder Scrolls Online, City of Heroes, Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, Lord of the Rings: Online, and probably more I've forgotten about.