Gerun Oracles

[PArcher]

I think, in this case, we can probably assume that "shade" is being used as a general descriptor and not a technical one. It seems to be used to imply that the subject is somehow lesser than the real thing. In Shiva's case, it's because she's not the real thing (when that had been the aim); in Niddhog's case, it's because he lacks his own corporeal form.

It'd be interesting to know the Japanese term in each situation, because I think we know enough about what constitutes a Primal to say that Estinien!Niddhog isn't one.

Just to piggyback this, I'm 99.999999999% sure that Nidhogg isn't a Primal (I'll just give that .000000001% because plot twists are a thing). How easy would it be for him to win the war by tempering all of Ishgard, robbing them of their freedom and being free himself to punish them without retribution? Middy also comments on how far his "son" has fallen, not a shade or spectre (or Primal) in the Singularity Reactor.

[Theodric]

-snip-

To be fair, you could say that about any Primal. They're extremely powerful and whilst they could technically go out and Temper the masses they rarely do so. Heck, they rarely seem to be allowed to even leave wherever it is they've chosen as their base. I've said this before, but 'Tempering' doesn't even come off as a threat these days. I'm still waiting for a major character like Cid to be fighting alongside the Warrior of Light one minute only to be Tempered the next and forced to be put down as a result. It'd be cruel and make for some awesome tension (as well as making Primals/Eikons feel like more than just the next big thing for the WoL to slay).

[Fenral]

I've said this before, but 'Tempering' doesn't even come off as a threat these days. I'm still waiting for a major character like Cid to be fighting alongside the Warrior of Light one minute only to be Tempered the next and forced to be put down as a result. It'd be cruel and make for some awesome tension (as well as making Primals/Eikons feel like more than just the next big thing for the WoL to slay).

Nah, by the time that happens we'll have found a way to use the Echo to undo Tempering, instead opening us up to reflect on the countless innocents put down offscreen by the Scions out of grim necessity. Only other way they'd handle it is as a way to get rid of a(nother) newly-introduced character, and that trick is even more stale.

[CyrilLucifer]

I'm not sure if we'll be able to cure it any time soon (give it an expansion or two when SE starts hurting for new plotlines), but I do expect we'll learn to shield other people. Somehow.

[Theodric]

I'm not sure if we'll be able to cure it any time soon (give it an expansion or two when SE starts hurting for new plotlines), but I do expect we'll learn to shield other people. Somehow.

I already expect them to cure Roundrox and/or Mide's lover if they're Tempered by Alexander. The biggest problem with the Echo is that it - and thus the WoL - can technically do anything with it as is needed to advance the plot. Which unfortunately makes many of the game's antagonists never get a chance to feel like a threat, thus it all circles back.


I don't mean to sound overly negative but...blergh. I generally end up supporting the antagonists in most settings because to me they're just much more interesting and complex. They're the ones that are usually fleshed out enough to endure realistic consequences whilst the protagonists often get a free pass because 'lol dey da gud guys' and 'rule of cool! lol!!!11'.

Alas, I'm pretty much in the minority. I already get strange looks whenever I admit that the Lannisters are my favourite characters in Game of Thrones.

[Fenral]

Alas, I'm pretty much in the minority. I already get strange looks whenever I admit that the Lannisters are my favourite characters in Game of Thrones.

They're perfectly sympathetic anti-villains in the books. I blame the TV show for not giving us very many introspective moments with them.

Then again, barring undeveloped crazy mustache evil, I can find a way to sympathize with pretty much anyone.

[Kallera]

Nah, by the time that happens we'll have found a way to use the Echo to undo Tempering, instead opening us up to reflect on the countless innocents put down offscreen by the Scions out of grim necessity. Only other way they'd handle it is as a way to get rid of a(nother) newly-introduced character, and that trick is even more stale.

bonus points of grimness if a scion gets tempered and its only then does an argument occur over whether to kill them or not.