Gerun Oracles

[Theodric]

I've said this before but I'm hoping that we will be forced to ally with Garlemald to take down a bigger threat. Garlemald deserves more than to constantly be pushed as convenient antagonists - there's a lot of potential for the Garleans to be much more than that. Looking back at earlier titles in the Final Fantasy series shows that many 'antagonists' can actually become firm friends or at least reluctant allies from time to time. It happened with Shinra in FF7, it happened with Gabranth in FF12, it happened with Kuja in FF9...and so on.

We need more of that in my opinion - especially if the story is ever going to evolve beyond the WoL conveniently taking down any and all threats that stand in their way.

[Belhi]

I've said this before but I'm hoping that we will be forced to ally with Garlemald to take down a bigger threat. Garlemald deserves more than to constantly be pushed as convenient antagonists - there's a lot of potential for the Garleans to be much more than that. Looking back at earlier titles in the Final Fantasy series shows that many 'antagonists' can actually become firm friends or at least reluctant allies from time to time. It happened with Shinra in FF7, it happened with Gabranth in FF12, it happened with Kuja in FF9...and so on.

We need more of that in my opinion - especially if the story is ever going to evolve beyond the WoL conveniently taking down any and all threats that stand in their way.

I don't know if Shinra and Kuja are good examples. Shinra did ally with the protagonists of FF7 but then promptly turned around and betrayed them going straight back to be antagonists. As for Kuja, he was really an antagonist till pretty much the very end of the game.

I want to see Garlemald as a more complex power structure with factions, some moderate and some more extreme. I highly doubt that the we will be dealing with more moderate groups until we at least set foot in Garlean held territories. Currently the ones in power in Garlemald are really antagonist material.

I could see us forced to work with them in extreme circumstances though (after all we have to put up with lolorito still) but currently I'm not sure what is going to be sever enough to warrant it. I seriously doubt we will see the WoL change his or her stance towards Garlemald's aggressive expansion and campaign of conquest, particularly with their current track record of how they have treated their conquered nations.

In the end though it will be the WoL who takes down the threats. We are the protagonist and the hero of the story.

[Mordoni]

I've read a lot of interesting theories on here about the Ascians, but there's something that stands out to me.

Mostly it's Faith, and how beliefs (or perspectives in general) seem to be a running thread in the universe, from Ascians declaring themselves true believers of Zodiark, to the line about how "We must believe we can achieve something, whether it's true or not."

Maybe Zodiark and Hydaelyn could be separate aspects of the True God, but only by the "Rejoining" could this God return?

All this talk of the Moon and the Star, yet nothing of the Earth?

Nothing but speculation of course, but I honestly believe that there's another God (neither Good nor Evil, but definitely not Neutral).

[Grayve]

I've read a lot of interesting theories on here about the Ascians, but there's something that stands out to me.

Mostly it's Faith, and how beliefs (or perspectives in general) seem to be a running thread in the universe, from Ascians declaring themselves true believers of Zodiark, to the line about how "We must believe we can achieve something, whether it's true or not."

Maybe Zodiark and Hydaelyn could be separate aspects of the True God, but only by the "Rejoining" could this God return?

All this talk of the Moon and the Star, yet nothing of the Earth?

Nothing but speculation of course, but I honestly believe that there's another God (neither Good nor Evil, but definitely not Neutral).

I believe 'Star' refers to the planet. It is the older definition of the word, but used that way throughout the game.

[Rocl]

I think, but can't be certain right now, that was pointing out that both Hraesvelgr and Tiamat have called the primal versions of their respective lovers "shades." And with the term being tossed around now to describe Nidhogg, it's relevant.

EDIT: okay, Tiamat calls Primal-Bahamut a "specter" but Hraesvelgr definitely uses "shade" for Primal-Shiva

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

I think, in this case, we can probably assume that "shade" is being used as a general descriptor and not a technical one. It seems to be used to imply that the subject is somehow lesser than the real thing. In Shiva's case, it's because she's not the real thing (when that had been the aim); in Niddhog's case, it's because he lacks his own corporeal form.

It'd be interesting to know the Japanese term in each situation, because I think we know enough about what constitutes a Primal to say that Estinien!Niddhog isn't one.

[PArcher]

I think, in this case, we can probably assume that "shade" is being used as a general descriptor and not a technical one. It seems to be used to imply that the subject is somehow lesser than the real thing. In Shiva's case, it's because she's not the real thing (when that had been the aim); in Niddhog's case, it's because he lacks his own corporeal form.

It'd be interesting to know the Japanese term in each situation, because I think we know enough about what constitutes a Primal to say that Estinien!Niddhog isn't one.

Just to piggyback this, I'm 99.999999999% sure that Nidhogg isn't a Primal (I'll just give that .000000001% because plot twists are a thing). How easy would it be for him to win the war by tempering all of Ishgard, robbing them of their freedom and being free himself to punish them without retribution? Middy also comments on how far his "son" has fallen, not a shade or spectre (or Primal) in the Singularity Reactor.

[Theodric]

-snip-

To be fair, you could say that about any Primal. They're extremely powerful and whilst they could technically go out and Temper the masses they rarely do so. Heck, they rarely seem to be allowed to even leave wherever it is they've chosen as their base. I've said this before, but 'Tempering' doesn't even come off as a threat these days. I'm still waiting for a major character like Cid to be fighting alongside the Warrior of Light one minute only to be Tempered the next and forced to be put down as a result. It'd be cruel and make for some awesome tension (as well as making Primals/Eikons feel like more than just the next big thing for the WoL to slay).

[Fenral]

I've said this before, but 'Tempering' doesn't even come off as a threat these days. I'm still waiting for a major character like Cid to be fighting alongside the Warrior of Light one minute only to be Tempered the next and forced to be put down as a result. It'd be cruel and make for some awesome tension (as well as making Primals/Eikons feel like more than just the next big thing for the WoL to slay).

Nah, by the time that happens we'll have found a way to use the Echo to undo Tempering, instead opening us up to reflect on the countless innocents put down offscreen by the Scions out of grim necessity. Only other way they'd handle it is as a way to get rid of a(nother) newly-introduced character, and that trick is even more stale.

[CyrilLucifer]

I'm not sure if we'll be able to cure it any time soon (give it an expansion or two when SE starts hurting for new plotlines), but I do expect we'll learn to shield other people. Somehow.