Gerun Oracles

[Frederick22]

Was it that history is cyclical? I thought it came off more as simply implying that events were preordained; Whatever is going to happen was scripted to happen.

As for Nidhogg... We have him flying off for "skies unknown"... If he wanted Midgardsormrs help to fight a Primal, and now feels betrayed by Middy, who has sided with us... Who would you go to for help? A certain Eikon hating Empire, that also historically "put down" Middy, perhaps? Would be a good way to instigate an Eorzean/Garlemald conflict and push us towards Ala Mhigo for 4.0.

Before its say ortherwise on the MSQ quest. Lets say for now that none of Middy's sons ( exept Tiamat ) knows that his father is helping the WoL.

[AstralKaos]

Was it that history is cyclical? I thought it came off more as simply implying that events were preordained; Whatever is going to happen was scripted to happen.

As for Nidhogg... We have him flying off for "skies unknown"... If he wanted Midgardsormrs help to fight a Primal, and now feels betrayed by Middy, who has sided with us... Who would you go to for help? A certain Eikon hating Empire, that also historically "put down" Middy, perhaps? Would be a good way to instigate an Eorzean/Garlemald conflict and push us towards Ala Mhigo for 4.0.

I believe they'd open fire on him before he could even utter or let it be known that he is seeking an alliance, even if it was to be a flimsy one.

"Genocide has ever been the Empire's favored recourse"

Unless of course, our good Imperial friends have discovered a means to "control" such an ally, but what level of coincidence are we talking to one: allow Nidhogg near the Garlean Empire and two: let his guard down long enough to even be captured. But c'mon, this is Nidhogg, remember, he didn't trust humanity even in peaceful times, would he even so much as entertain seeking anything but destruction to any of the human sides.

[Cilia]

This may be speculation based on Elidibus's words, but The Gerun Oracles seem suggest that history is cyclical, and that the current events of Eorzea are following a pattern of events that happen throughout the ages. Nidhogg's ultimate fate and willingness to cheat death may play into it, if someone were to suggest lockin him away somewhere...or if it sparks the rise of imperial ambitions.

Was it that history is cyclical? I thought it came off more as simply implying that events were preordained; Whatever is going to happen was scripted to happen.

As for Nidhogg... We have him flying off for "skies unknown"... If he wanted Midgardsormrs help to fight a Primal, and now feels betrayed by Middy, who has sided with us... Who would you go to for help? A certain Eikon hating Empire, that also historically "put down" Middy, perhaps? Would be a good way to instigate an Eorzean/Garlemald conflict and push us towards Ala Mhigo for 4.0.

While I do still believe history is cyclical on Hydaelyn, it's probably not a 1 for 1 thing that happens over and over. There's the rise of an empire, a great war, and a cataclysm that results leading to an Umbral Era. We don't know all of the Calamities' buildup, but...

3rd Astral Era / 4th Calamity: Rise of Allag, war with Meracydia, Dalamud blasts Syrcus Tower causing the Calamity.
5th Astral Era / 6th Calamity: Rise of the magic city-states, War of the Magi, Elementals flood the world in response.
6th Astral Era / 7th Calamity: Rise of Garlemald, Battle of Cartenau, Dalamud's descent and Bahamut's breakout.

... that said, this is just a basic template. Details change, but there's not always going to be a killed / resurrected / imprisoned dragon. As for Nidhogg, I have a very hard time believing he'd ally with Garlemald; while his hatred is directed primarily at Ishgard, he seems to hold all mortals in contempt. It should also be noted that the "Nidhogg" we're fighting now isn't the genuine article, but a manifestation of his hatred that lingered in his eyes. The English version calls him simply a "shade," while I believe the Japanese version calls him a "demon dragon" (as opposed to his original designation as a celestial dragon).

[Kaiser-Ace]

... that said, this is just a basic template. Details change, but there's not always going to be a killed / resurrected / imprisoned dragon. As for Nidhogg, I have a very hard time believing he'd ally with Garlemald; while his hatred is directed primarily at Ishgard, he seems to hold all mortals in contempt. It should also be noted that the "Nidhogg" we're fighting now isn't the genuine article, but a manifestation of his hatred that lingered in his eyes. The English version calls him simply a "shade," while I believe the Japanese version calls him a "demon dragon" (as opposed to his original designation as a celestial dragon).

Hmm, that would effectively make Nidhogg a Yokai/Akuma by japanese standards. But I think "Shade" would be a mislabeled. Shades have little to no influence over the material world so Nidhogg retaining the ability to kill would make him a Wraith. A very powerful and dangerous Vengeful Spirit

[Nalien]

Before its say ortherwise on the MSQ quest. Lets say for now that none of Middy's sons ( exept Tiamat ) knows that his father is helping the WoL.

Would it be hard for him to find out? I mean, we flew back to Ishgard on Midgardsormr... Word is bound to get around eventually... Although given Nidhoggs temper, and the simple fact that Midgardsormr went from joining the chorus to... Not... I can imagine Nidhogg being slightly peeved at daddy regardless. If he wanted Middys aid for dealing with Thordan, then the next best thing would be the army that went toe to toe with Middy, surely?

As for allying with Garlemald, "ally" is perhaps too strong a word. My favorite theory is still that Lahabrea is alive and well as an eye floater, and will compel Nidhogg towards something stupid (like summoning Bahamut unto himself, giving us some new bastardization of Bahamut (probably Shinryu, poor Tiamat...) to bring Omega into the plot), but considering where he could be flying off to? If we're rounding up the Dragonsong War soon, he can't be going far. Then we have 4.0, granted we have no real idea where that will be going, but one assumes a conflict with Garlemald. Having him storm in there (and I wonder if he can revert back to Estinien form for negotiations...), go "Yo, Ishgard summoned a Primal", then bugger off, that could instigate a new conflict for 4.0.

He wouldn't so much be allying with them, but rather getting the last laugh. Unless where he is going becomes a plot point, and we go there too, I expect it to be a final revelation. He'll attack Ishgard or something, we'll defeat him and finally end the Dragonsong War, then he lets us know that he told Garlemald everything, and Ishgard will never know peace, because now Garlemald is coming for them.

[Theodric]

I've said this before but I'm hoping that we will be forced to ally with Garlemald to take down a bigger threat. Garlemald deserves more than to constantly be pushed as convenient antagonists - there's a lot of potential for the Garleans to be much more than that. Looking back at earlier titles in the Final Fantasy series shows that many 'antagonists' can actually become firm friends or at least reluctant allies from time to time. It happened with Shinra in FF7, it happened with Gabranth in FF12, it happened with Kuja in FF9...and so on.

We need more of that in my opinion - especially if the story is ever going to evolve beyond the WoL conveniently taking down any and all threats that stand in their way.

[Belhi]

I've said this before but I'm hoping that we will be forced to ally with Garlemald to take down a bigger threat. Garlemald deserves more than to constantly be pushed as convenient antagonists - there's a lot of potential for the Garleans to be much more than that. Looking back at earlier titles in the Final Fantasy series shows that many 'antagonists' can actually become firm friends or at least reluctant allies from time to time. It happened with Shinra in FF7, it happened with Gabranth in FF12, it happened with Kuja in FF9...and so on.

We need more of that in my opinion - especially if the story is ever going to evolve beyond the WoL conveniently taking down any and all threats that stand in their way.

I don't know if Shinra and Kuja are good examples. Shinra did ally with the protagonists of FF7 but then promptly turned around and betrayed them going straight back to be antagonists. As for Kuja, he was really an antagonist till pretty much the very end of the game.

I want to see Garlemald as a more complex power structure with factions, some moderate and some more extreme. I highly doubt that the we will be dealing with more moderate groups until we at least set foot in Garlean held territories. Currently the ones in power in Garlemald are really antagonist material.

I could see us forced to work with them in extreme circumstances though (after all we have to put up with lolorito still) but currently I'm not sure what is going to be sever enough to warrant it. I seriously doubt we will see the WoL change his or her stance towards Garlemald's aggressive expansion and campaign of conquest, particularly with their current track record of how they have treated their conquered nations.

In the end though it will be the WoL who takes down the threats. We are the protagonist and the hero of the story.

[Mordoni]

I've read a lot of interesting theories on here about the Ascians, but there's something that stands out to me.

Mostly it's Faith, and how beliefs (or perspectives in general) seem to be a running thread in the universe, from Ascians declaring themselves true believers of Zodiark, to the line about how "We must believe we can achieve something, whether it's true or not."

Maybe Zodiark and Hydaelyn could be separate aspects of the True God, but only by the "Rejoining" could this God return?

All this talk of the Moon and the Star, yet nothing of the Earth?

Nothing but speculation of course, but I honestly believe that there's another God (neither Good nor Evil, but definitely not Neutral).

[Grayve]

I've read a lot of interesting theories on here about the Ascians, but there's something that stands out to me.

Mostly it's Faith, and how beliefs (or perspectives in general) seem to be a running thread in the universe, from Ascians declaring themselves true believers of Zodiark, to the line about how "We must believe we can achieve something, whether it's true or not."

Maybe Zodiark and Hydaelyn could be separate aspects of the True God, but only by the "Rejoining" could this God return?

All this talk of the Moon and the Star, yet nothing of the Earth?

Nothing but speculation of course, but I honestly believe that there's another God (neither Good nor Evil, but definitely not Neutral).

I believe 'Star' refers to the planet. It is the older definition of the word, but used that way throughout the game.

[Zohar_Lahar]

Hmm, that would effectively make Nidhogg a Yokai/Akuma by japanese standards. But I think "Shade" would be a mislabeled. Shades have little to no influence over the material world so Nidhogg retaining the ability to kill would make him a Wraith. A very powerful and dangerous Vengeful Spirit

Just like the Bahamut that came out of Dalamud.