Is dpsing and a healer becoming the standard norm!

[Kaurie]

I just don't understand...with how vit accs are set up now there is barely a reason to heal in most dungeons as the tank health barely drops so why not actually use some other skills to make your run more enjoyable and everyone else's run a bit smoother...I haven't played an MMO yet where the only thing a healer can do is heal

it has very little to do with VIT accessories. The stops preventing large pulls is the main reason. The incoming damage per second to the tank is overall much lower.

[Alistaire]

Way to be a douche - starting a static without a healer just so you can judge your pug healers and vote kick them. You could just get a static healer then that lives up to your standards.

Pretty safe to say it's the person who just wants to stand around and get carried who is being a douche.

[ZephyrMenodora]

it has very little to do with VIT accessories. The stops preventing large pulls is the main reason. The incoming damage per second to the tank is overall much lower.

This is a change I'm not yet aware of as I am still level 50 and just got Heavensward today. If the zones now really require almost no healing then by all means dps. At 50 this is not the case and the roulette I do still feature large pulls and constant healing needed on the tank (and usually dps who pull aggro or are melee). This thread makes me worry because I enjoy shining as a healer - turning impossible situations around and really excelling AT HEALING. It sounds like Heavensward may not be the game for me because this thread leads me to believe that there are not opportunities for healers to demonstrate real healing skill and are now judged by how often they throw out a dps skill. This concept, not healing, bores me.

I've mained healing classes since EQ in 1999 and back then we were only really asked to heal, buff, and maybe stun. We had a heal that literally had a 10 second cast time and at the time I played groups were ecstatic if they just had no deaths. Things slowly started changing over the years where more games have communities that want their healers to DPS if the game even has a healing class at all. The only thing that remains consistent is that the healing classes remain the most criticized and unappreciated classes in games.


If a healer is actually bad as people are saying you would notice as you would die. but today a healer is bad even if they don't allow anyone to die and remove debuffs. Now they also not only have to add dps but good dps. The actual dps classes are typically not just allowed to be mediocre, but criticize healers now too.

I actually main healing classes because I actually like to heal. I see dps in this thread insulting healers who like to heal. WTF is this? An extension of healing I enjoy is curing debuffs and casting stuns and debuffs if we have them. If I wanted to dps I'd main another class.

[Kaurie]

This is a change I'm not yet aware of as I am still level 50 and just got Heavensward today. If the zones now really require almost no healing then by all means dps. At 50 this is not the case and the roulette I do still feature large pulls and constant healing needed on the tank (and usually dos who pull aggro or see melee).

I've mained healing classes since EQ in 1999 and back then we were only really asked to heal, buff, and maybe stun. We had a heal that literally had a 10 second cast time and at the time I played groups were ecstatic if they just had no deaths. Things slowly started changing over the years where more games have communities that want their healers to DPS if the game even has a healing class at all. The only thing that remains consistent is that the healing classes remain the most criticized and unappreciated classes in games.


If a healer is actually bad as people are saying you would notice as you would die. but today a healer is bad even if they don't allow anyone to die and remove debuffs. Now they also not only have to add dps but good dps. The actual dps classes are typically not just allowed to be mediocre, but criticize healers now too.

I actually main healing classes because I actually like to heal. I see dps in this thread insulting healers who like to heal. WTF is this? An extension of healing I enjoy is curing debuffs and casting stuns and debuffs if we have them. If I wanted to dps I'd main another class.

as mentioned previously, I did a sample at one of the two newest dungeons. I cast 1 physick the entire dungeon and adlos only between pulls. Other than that Eos solo healed it all and the tank never hit half health.

I then went to Aetherochemical Facility and had to heal quite a bit more.


I could, theoretically, just auto follow tank and let Eos do her work while I go make dinner or something I guess.

[TheUltimateSeph]

as mentioned previously, I did a sample at one of the two newest dungeons. I cast 1 physick the entire dungeon and adlos only between pulls. Other than that Eos solo healed it all and the tank never hit half health.

I then went to Aetherochemical Facility and had to heal quite a bit more.


I could, theoretically, just auto follow tank and let Eos do her work while I go make dinner or something I guess.

That's fine and dandy if you are a scholar. Your class is based off a dps class anyway as previously stated and fairy is really OP. If you are a WHM or AST you will be healing a bit more then twice in a dungeon run.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I main WHM so I don't have a fairy to reply on. But this news is still saddening. Content that is challenging to heal ifs what I find fun.

[Kaurie]

That's fine and dandy if you are a scholar. Your class is based off a dps class anyway as previously stated and fairy is really OP. If you are a WHM or AST you will be healing a bit more then twice in a dungeon run.

Precisely, as a WHM you will cast a regen once every 20s or so.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The actual dps classes are typically not just allowed to be mediocre, but criticize healers now too.

Like I've said before, no one wants DPS to get good, ever. Otherwise, people would actually support DPS having actual responsibilities. As it stands now, DPS jobs are more often an afterthought in any composition then something people want around.

Unfortunately, in this game mediocre DPS are celebrated since they give healers/tanks more to do via happily shoving all the leg work off on their cohorts, while DPS that actually either want to approve, or are actually competent at their jobs, are condemned because they take away from what healers could be doing, afai understand.

I can't confirm the 'clearing everything' without any DPS jobs, but I do know that due to role preferences, we had groups from my FC levelling 50-60 and doing some dungeons with either two tanks or two healers (with one tank or healer pretending to be a dps). I know we did in particular the Vault with both combinations; had no particular issues as such, and while it did go slightly slower than with two DPS jobs, there was no particular difference in speed between the 'two tanks' and the 'two healers' setup. (Might be worth to mention that the distribution of roles was DRK/WAR or PLD/WAR and SCH/WHM respectively, with the WAR or SCH 'pretending to be a dps'.)

It's common on Malboro, at least. I've seen or taken part in no DPS clears of pretty much everything from Sastasha synced down to A8N with a mixture of healers/tanks, including runs of every coil turn before Heavensward launched, 1 tank/23 healer runs of Void Ark/CT instances. I'm pretty sure I've even seen a couple of Savage Coil groups successfully clear without DPS, though I never entered that one personally because it's never interested me.

[Noxifer]

Beware long post ^^;

One day people will stop taking this out of context, but today is not the day.

Whether the quote is taken out of context or not, it still summarizes some "I will only heal, no matter what" healers pretty well, and for that I kinda like it. ^^;

Nope. It is the healer fault if he continues to DPS and the tank dies. But if the tank reaches 500 health and then the healer uses his cooldowns like Tetra, Essential Dignity, Lustrate. He did his job perfectly fine. Healers are here to keep you alive not to keep you at 100% all the time when it isn't even needed.

Which is what Xlantaa said. If the healer is healing, and the tank dies due to lack of mitigation or dodging, then it's the tank's fault. If the healer is dpsing and the tank's hp is dropping and goes to 0, then it's kinda the healer's fault for not stopping their dpsing. If the tank isn't using mitigation, both of them are at fault, of course, but if the healer isn't even trying to compensate for the brainfarting tank, it's not solely the tank's fault for dying.

I call that kickbait. I'm not here to drag people through a dungeon while they watch Netflix!

Agreed. Sure, temporarily it's ok, if they have to brb for some reason (as long as they say something first), but even then I'd really prefer if they put /follow on a ranged dps instead ^^; Due to /follow delays, they're bound to be hit by all AoEs directed at the tank otherwise.

I'm not entirely sure about that. Played many MMO's over the years and this is so far the only one where people go crazy about healers dpsing.

I'm fairly sure Slappah meant "norm for forever in this game", not in general ^^;

Heh wow, no one has ever actually verbally acknowledged my DPSing on my SCH. In fact, I often find I am more likely to get commendations if I don't DPS and I just sit around and heal once in awhile.

I've experienced both *shrugs* It depends a lot on what kind of people you end up with in a run. But it's true, people rarely go out of their way to say anything specific about what was done right. But while I haven't had many people tell me 'good dpsing', I haven't really had anyone tell me 'good healing' either. Both are kind of expected, especially from a scholar, but in my experience people don't always complain in-duty regarding lack of dps either (when it comes to dungeons and other 'easier' content, that is). They'll just shrug and leave and figure they'll 'get a better healer next time', I suppose. I don't particularly care, to be honest. I'll dps as much as I'm comfortable with. If the tank's losing hp rapidly or very unevenly, I'll throw in a Shadowflare and a few MiasmaII -- without Cleric Stance. If it's a tank who's actively using self-mitigation and dodges stuff (and is more than marginally above the ilvl requirement), then I can feel safe going ClericStance until the tank's at around 50% hp or so. I do admit that there've been a couple of close calls where I've missed with my Miasma and want to recast it so I can Bane the group before going back, and then have to use my remaining Aetherflow stacks to Lustrate the tank to safety before I can take the time to cast a Physick or Adlo. Haven't lost anyone recently, though. Well, not for that reason at least.

If you solely want to heal and nothing else, there's.... Every other MMO ever out there...

You have a fair point there, though I'm normally not too fond of the whole "if this one thing doesn't suit you, go play something else" argument.

That said, it did take me quite a while to get comfortable enough to dare stance dancing, and even now I still have to actively remind myself (both as scholar and as warrior) to actually utilize my stance dancing in combat. To switch to Deliverance after the other tank swapped with me, instead of remaining in Defiance because "I'll be tankswapping in just half a minute or so anyway". And I wasn't particularly damaged by other MMOs either -- I've only dabbled in LotRO and SWtOR up to around level 30 or so. So I can imagine that if you've played a "healers only heal" type of MMO extensively, the change could be shocking and/or stressful.

It's fairly common to be fully capable of clearing everything without a single DPS job, running nothing but healers and tanks because healer DPS is frankly insanely high.

I can't confirm the 'clearing everything' without any DPS jobs, but I do know that due to role preferences, we had groups from my FC levelling 50-60 and doing some dungeons with either two tanks or two healers (with one tank or healer pretending to be a dps). I know we did in particular the Vault with both combinations; had no particular issues as such, and while it did go slightly slower than with two DPS jobs, there was no particular difference in speed between the 'two tanks' and the 'two healers' setup. (Might be worth to mention that the distribution of roles was DRK/WAR or PLD/WAR and SCH/WHM respectively, with the WAR or SCH 'pretending to be a dps'.)

Pretty safe to say it's the person who just wants to stand around and get carried who is being a douche.

Well, if said person is telling you they want to get carried, and then very obviously does the bare minimum (I'm thinking of one tank in Void Ark doing this -- even used autoattacks only during one boss, and deliberately got himself locked out of the last fight, leaving me to tank both baby Echidna and one of the snakes), then yes, that person's a douche.

But if said person is uncomfortable healing because they're usually playing a different role, and is struggling to keep track of everything that's going on, taking those 'quiet moments' to calm themselves down and prepare for the next panic moment, then the person who went there partially pre-formed just to be able to kick 'bad healers' and then decides to kick them is a douche.

Basically, unless the person communicates an attitude of 'you're here to carry me', you have very little clue as to what's happening on their side of the screen.

This is a change I'm not yet aware of as I am still level 50 and just got Heavensward today. If the zones now really require almost no healing then by all means dps. At 50 this is not the case and the roulette I do still feature large pulls and constant healing needed on the tank (and usually dps who pull aggro or are melee).

It's a change that happened during one of the 2.x patches, actually. In the first couple of level 50 dungeons, as well as most of the ones before that, you could pull pretty much the entire stretch before a boss (Brayflox HM, for example). Then at some point (2.3, maybe?) they changed that, and dungeons started to feature 'gates' every two to three mob groups, preventing people from progressing further before all the enemies (or specific enemies) were killed. So yeah, after that the pulls could still be daunting for a 'fresh' healer, but for those who'd gotten used to the full pulls of the previous dungeons, it was mostly just a 'sigh, not another gated dungeon' experience.

[Andrea]

Having run the expert roulette dungeons on both whm and sch ( who knows ast may be different but Im guessing not), the little amount of healing needed with people even on minimum ilevel is insane.

If they made dungeons where I had to heal more I would not mind the lack of dps coming from me. But as it stands now I would need to watch a stream or something in the background just healing a dungeon.