Is dpsing and a healer becoming the standard norm!

[silentwindfr]

i had an antitower, where the scholar simply didn't heal me from the start to the end, did leave it to the pixie. actually he did cast 3-4 heal max in the whole dungeon for be honest.
i find it kinda strange to think that SE did nerf to the ground the tank dps capacity and at the same time it did lead to the inverse.... the healer turning into dps more than healer.

[Lexia]

I do think SE needs to up the damage so healers (mainly whm) can actually heal and not have to dps, cause the new dungeons are a joke hardly any healing needs to be done so yea gotta be in cleric stance doing dps which most the time I'm like no thanks and just stay on my ninja job cause might as well play my dps job if going to be dpsing.

[Kallera]

it seems like this is what is being promoted:

"Healers can dps" is different from "Healers have to dps" SE would like to promote the former, without making the latter the rule. this makes accuracy caps an important role in enforcing this. in easier content, healers will have the accuracy to dps if they choose, without making it mandatory to succeed(do to ilvl stats or easier difficulty), but in highler level content, you cannot force a healer to dps on something they cannot hit to begin with.

[Andrea]

it seems like this is what is being promoted:.

The only thing FFXIV would have that could be considered higher level content would be Savage. And good luck finding a static if you dont dps.

The game simply put does not throw out the amount of damage needed for full time healing. If you were to just heal you would be doing an awful lot of standing around contributing nothing to your group.

Obviously being new, learning or first few times in a duty are an exception, but once you are used to a duty you should be dpsing when given the option to do so pretty much.

[Kosmos992k]

This topic just never goes away does it? Perhaps it should have it's own sub-forum?

Either way, Healers heal, Tanks tank and DPS deal big damage. Tanks and healers can contribute extra DPS depending on circumstances. However, demanding that Healers DPS more is akin to asking DPS players to do more party healing. That's never going to happen is it? It's totally inefficient. In effect this expectation demands that healers perform two roles, healer and damage dealer.

Personally I would much rather a Healer focus on keeping everyone alive rather than stance dancing and running in to Holy the crap out of things. If circumstances allow, and the player is comfortable, that's great, but if not, let the healer heal, and if they find room to do damage it's a nice added bonus.

[Kaurie]

However, demanding that Healers DPS more is akin to asking DPS players to do more party healing. That's never going to happen is it? It's totally inefficient. In effect this expectation demands that healers perform two roles, healer and damage dealer..

The difference to determine efficiency comes from opportunity cost.

Opportunity cost of a DPS healing: Lost damage.

Opportunity cost of a healer DPSing: Nothing (unless you count entertaining emotes).

If there was an encounter where a DPS could be doing absolutely nothing, nothing to attack so the opportunity cost of healing was not lost damage AND there was a fair amount of healing to do that the added heals from a BLM/SMN were useful, then sure. It'd be the same thing. The thing is, this is never the case.

This comparison would be even more relevant if BLM/SMN had a healing stance as well.

This topic just never goes away does it? Perhaps it should have it's own sub-forum?

I agree, and for some reason i cannot stop posting in it.

[Kosmos992k]

The difference to determine efficiency comes from opportunity cost.

Opportunity cost of a DPS healing: Lost damage.

Opportunity cost of a healer DPSing: Nothing (unless you count entertaining emotes).

I'm not suggesting healers should twiddle their thumbs or dance between phases while everyone else flails away. I agree with you that behavior would be ridiculous and I don't think anyone would think it was appropriate for that to happen.

Quick aside : In another game we had someone in a party who'd literally sit down during fights, if they felt they were not needed for that fight. Guess how long they lasted before we abandoned the quest and repartied...I remember another occasion where some player who thought they were sh*t hot was making snide comments about others. So, we fed him to a mini-boss. Twice. He left, and we killed the remainder of the quest without him. So I agree that players should always pull their weight and contribute to the team in every way they can.

As always in this discussion I agree (with you) in that if a healer can, and is comfortable doing so, they really ought to contribute as much as they can to a fight. However, how much the contribute needs to be their decision and not mine, yours or anyone else's.

Players have different levels of comfort with stance dancing and damage dealing as a healer. I would expect that end-game players and raiders who are healers would have the art of stance dancing well practiced. But in general, I don't think it fair to demand or expect all healers should perform as healers in raids do.

...and regarding this topic needing a sub-forum...

I agree, and for some reason i cannot stop posting in it.

Neither can I.

[melisande]

Let me change the title for you:
Using all of the skills / actions you are able to use on your job is completely normal.

[Lexia]

Let me change the title for you:
Using all of the skills / actions you are able to use on your job is completely normal.

A more comedic title would be "yes it ok to be a second class black mage" Least a whm you do, sch do have a lot more abilities to use and not sure about ast though.

[AngelicSence]

In fact, I read his post entirely differently as you did ?

I think it depends what you believe and which side you defend. But let me know how different.