Why so salty?

[Dualgunner]

I really don't feel sorry for anyone complaining about this nerf, I've been tanking in MMORPG's since Ultima Online.

And it's your right not to; but do realize, at the very least, that the people complaining were people who genuinely had fun playing their classes the way they did, and not put them down for no longer being able to play that way any longer.

[Welsper59]

These are the kinds of people this thread is talking about. The vitriolic people who feel like now that a viable playstyle got nerfed to hell, they can now run around making fun of them and screaming 'We were right all along! See? SE agrees!' This thread is not meant to argue about whether or not the nerf was needed/wanted by the community, it was about how, and I noticed this too, as salty as the actual tanks are, all the healers and dps and VIT tanks commenting seem to be even saltier towards people who just had their way of playing crushed. Moreover it's a plea to remind everyone that we're all on the same side, and to try to keep insults to a minimum and regard others' feelings for their playstyles.

One thing that practically everyone on both sides of the argument overlooks is whether or not opinions and perspectives are objectively right, wrong, or misguided though. One can easily have perspectives about something that is objectively wrong or misguided, despite it being a personal thing. Take the recent stupidity about the Earth being flat. Objectively wrong and can easily lead to many misguided brandings upon others. Even moreso when it comes to health and vaccinations. While these are real world issues, it does still transition mentally into how some things in a game are. Most people don't read everything that is being said, and will respond based on previous experience or perception. To them, OP was all about the "QQ SE SUX" saying. There are some things of note though that's being said by the OP that stands out as "you're not really understanding what's going on here", which adds fuel to the fire.

Why it's so taboo for a tank who wields a great axe, great sword, or a sword to put out good dps numbers is beyond me. I fail to understand why everyone, well not everyone, but I fail to understand why so many of you are against tanks doing good DPS. Especially because this is just a game, and we're all here to have fun.

That, for example, is one of those things. It screams ignorance, as it leaves so many possible counterpoints. Why does there need to be a distinguishable line between the roles? Because of the same reason why we can't heal like healers, tank like tanks, and do damage like DPS at the same time as one job or role. It's why we can't have an optional I.W.I.N. button. Generally speaking, none of us are a one-man army for all forms of content. Roles are there to promote team play and coordination. When one starts to cross over into another role, it opens Pandora's Box. You don't feel the effects of it right away, but balance becomes a problem for not just the players, but for the developers as well. What if they decided to buff something like Fell Cleave by 50% instead? All in the name of fun, but why would that be remotely ridiculous when it's all about the fun? DPS still bring unique traits and buffs to a group, so it's not like they'd be outright useless. Even in PvP, it was already plausible to be 1-shot by it, so it's not like amplifying it would make a difference. See where I'm going here? Arguments are fine, but there are VERY important things to note about each parties perspectives to determine if the argument itself is sound.

[tjw]

And it's your right not to; but do realize, at the very least, that the people complaining were people who genuinely had fun playing their classes the way they did, and not put them down for no longer being able to play that way any longer.

Not saying that you're one of them, but your attitude is just a hair's width away from those who have the infamous "I play how I want!" attitude when it comes to duties. If I had a tank that 'had fun' only in DPS stance, even if he was losing hate...should I not say something? I have more fun in Cleric Stance blasting enemies away with Holy. Does that mean I shouldn't be focusing on my main role as healer? Healers have felt the brunt of being unable to DPS properly since a long time ago (PvP Cleric Stance nerf) and more recently as well (all accuracy gone on HW gear). So yes, if you are playing your role for fun, but not for the comfort of everyone, then yes, I will be saying negative things.

[Dualgunner]

snip

I agree with you; the OP made offhand remarks above and beyond what my interpretation of the thread is meant to be. I also do understand the tank nerfs, and I can agree with them over time; like I will say, though, in my response to TJW, is that my opinion regarding tank balance is moot, as I do not main a tank.

I am all for argumentation; that is, discussion meant to bring greater understanding to all parties involved, and/or sway the opinion of spectators and/or participants to one paradigm or another. However, comments along the lines of 'Is OP a 10 year old?' serve only as argumentative fallacy and do not achieve the goal of argumentation.

-snip-

I will agree with you on the point that if your fun is to the detriment of the group, then your fun is not worth it. I dislike Ice Mages and I groan every time I see a dungeon go by with a dragoon never touching Heavy Thrust like it's hidden behind some kind of forbidden lock. With that said, in my experience the majority of Strength Tanks did not detract, but rather, added to a dungeon; that is, however, anecdotal at best and I only submit that to submit that I may have some bias in this discussion.

Not maining a Tank class, myself, my opinion on the tank nerfs is moot; I lack the knowledge to craft educated premises for argument, and the passion to put a defense up either way. I just wish for all the hatred I've seen both sides spew at each other to stop, or at least lessen; I know these forums are harsh at times, but they seem to get a few orders of magnitude worse whenever DPS (of any variety: DPS's dps (referring to Ice Mages and their defenders) Tank's DPS (current discussion) and Healer DPS (Healers should only heal!)) is brought up.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Well yeah you should grow up, it's not even a big nerf.

[Kaurie]

People post about their concern, and upsetness, that a job, in this case War, Drk, or Pld, is doing less damage due to the patch and most people fire back with comments akin to, "Boo hoo. Grow up. You were never meant to do damage. Shut up and tank. Suck it up and put your big boy pants on. Etc. Etc."

What if SE took the job that you enjoy most and nerfed the shit out of it? Hmmm? What if they decided oh you like pushing out big numbers with your Mnk? Well, we decided that, yes you are supposed to be doing damage, but tests have shown that your numbers are a bit too high, so in response to that we'll be reducing your damage by 35%. Please look forward to it!....Just as an example.

In effect, this is what happened when WARs starting pulling insane numbers in 3.x with Fell Cleave. Instead of having DPS do drastically more damage than tanks, it was neck and neck. Everyone improved, but relative values matter. The % damage that MNK brought to the team was less in 3.15 than it was in 2.4. So in relative terms, this exactly what happened to the MNKs in Heavensward.

[Evangela]

Because most of the Str tanks caused more issues than helping the team. I said most of them but not every.

[Reila_Circus]

I think the frustrations came from having a choice removed. A lot of people including myself really like unique ways to complete content and STR tanking was probably one of the more useful.
I remember being bummed out a year ago when they patched out Titan-Egi being able to Tank Ramuh EX, just because I thought it was an interesting an unique thing to do. Don't get wrong though, that was a really necessary thing to do.

I was a strength tank.
I'm very indifferent about the situation. Tanking is what I enjoy, not big numbers. If anything, my HP bar is now bigger and it makes me pleased.

Pretty much this. I enjoyed strength tanking myself, but I just have fun Tanking in general.

[NFaelivrin]

The gap between tanks and DPS in damage numbers was smaller than ever in Heavensward. Tanks shouldn't be encroaching on the territory of real DPS simply because tank rotations are incredibly simple compared to real DPS, and the latter should be rewarded for actually learning these often very complex rotation.

[Harz]

My ultimate problem is that it's solved nothing, bis tank gear is still going to be a mix of str and vit accessories because they're equally weighted and vit accessories are overly saturated with parry and accuracy. One of which is a dead stat and the other is a dead stat past a certain point.

The gap between tanks and DPS in damage numbers was smaller than ever in Heavensward. Tanks shouldn't be encroaching on the territory of real DPS simply because tank rotations are incredibly simple compared to real DPS, and the latter should be rewarded for actually learning these often very complex rotation.

The only DPS they were even close to 'encroaching on' were BRD and MCH, and that's not really a fair comparison because both offer substantial increases to raid wide dps that none of the tanks can even come close to matching.