Why should warriors get a free pass to all savage content?

[Kuwagami]

Unless they balance it right. They've shown they can do that with healer and DPS jobs, they just don't want to piss off the tanking community by doing it with Warriors (can you imagine the backlash?).

There is always one above the other.

Really, I'm strating to think that WARs are just salty because they've enjoyed the god-tier slot for so long. It's funny how they're all against any kind of nerf to their job in 3.x cuz "war is fine", and now are calling for a buff to other jobs to make them equally overpowered instead of accepting that they might need a nerf from the huge buffs they got in 2.1 and 3.0.

All of the nerfs proposed to WAR's gameplay so far are utter garbage, that's why we are against it. The only nerf I could get behind is a slight nerf in skill potencies (like fell cleave).
Because the gameplay of war is so good right now, any changes proposed to it (so far) are just destroying the balance for the sake of it. How would you like to lose your "nope I'm cheating the game for 10 seconds" Hallowed Ground to make it fairer for WARs who have to deal with Holmgang ? because if you remove WAR's gameplay, we should as well remove PLD's gameplay, amirite ?

Progression will never be balanced and never was in any game. There will always be compositions that will be superior no matter that. The more jobs we get the more apparent it will become.

also, this

[lulunami]

Unfortunately nothing the other two tanks or their allowed compositions can replace Storm's Path. It's just too good.

Storm's Path is good in early progression and highly tuned fights like Savage Second Coil. Although, you tend to read more selfish WARs on message boards that scoff at being forced to use Path, since it lowers their DPS. Blame the healers when they die afterward. xD

[Jpec07]

All of the nerfs proposed to WAR's gameplay so far are utter garbage, that's why we are against it. The only nerf I could get behind is a slight nerf in skill potencies (like fell cleave).
Because the gameplay of war is so good right now, any changes proposed to it (so far) are just destroying the balance for the sake of it. How would you like to lose your "nope I'm cheating the game for 10 seconds" Hallowed Ground to make it fairer for WARs who have to deal with Holmgang ? because if you remove WAR's gameplay, we should as well remove PLD's gameplay, amirite ?

How does cutting DPS (through potency snips, like you said), nerfing Storm's Path, and removing the slashing debuff in any way relate to Holmgang/Hallowed Ground/Living Dead?

There are three things that Warriors have over other tanks:

• Overpowerful DPS
• Storm's Path debuff (-10% eDPS)
• Storm's Eye debuff (-10% enemy slashing resistance)

Of the three, only Storm's Path has any sort of competition from the other tanks (RoH = -10% eStr; Delerium = -10% eInt). But because of how it affects all types of damage, and because it stacks with those debuffs, and because it's more effective than either of them (and more effective alone than both combined), it is basically mandatory for raid composition.

So if they target these three areas with strategic nerfs, and balanced it carefully, Warriors would no longer be essential for composition.

You also fail to recognize the difference between a job being essential for progression and a job being preferred. In a situation where it is essential, no group can succeed without it. If preferred, a group will simply have to operate in a different manner that will make their fights very slightly longer/more difficult. The biggest example of this that I can think is A1S-A4S, where almost no group could succeed in early months without a Warrior in the party; in this case, they were essential. The nerfs that WAR needs should be aimed at making it so that they are no longer essential for group composition to succeed. I suggest nerfs, because WAR simply brings too much to the table right now to be considered for non-inclusion. You are literally shooting yourself in the foot right now if you don't bring a WAR to a raid, and that is not okay.

EDIT: Proof I needed to change my wording slightly: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3582394

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Storm's Path is good in early progression and highly tuned fights like Savage Second Coil. Although, you tend to read more selfish WARs on message boards that scoff at being forced to use Path, since it lowers their DPS. Blame the healers when they die afterward. xD

That's just because having mitigation up when you don't actually need it just hurts your party's DPS for no good reason. Unless

A) Both tanks are undergeared for the content and need their respective damage down debuffs to survive
Or
B) Healers are undergeared, or for some reason need help mitigating a raid wide hit even with all their free ogcd's

It's a demonstrated loss for no substantial gain.

[Dement]

Really, I'm strating to think that PLDs are just salty that they aren't the god-tier tank anymore. It's funny how they were all against a WAR buff in 2.0 cuz "war is fine", and now don't want a buff to their class but instead a nerf to war.

I haven't read the responses to this yet and I'm sure it's been refuted. I just also found it funny that the PLDs were perfectly fine in the months leading up to HW when everyone was positive that DRK would be competing for WAR's spot since everyone assumed they'd both be DPS tanks.

[Kuwagami]

The biggest example of this that I can think is A1S-A4S, where no group could succeed in early months without a Warrior in the party; in this case, they were essential.

say what mate ?

(still looking for a AS4 early clear but I'm sure I'll find one) (edit : here goes )

No class is essential. Ever. Sheeps just must learn how not to jump on the band waggons. And learn that world first race doesn't mean anything when it comes to regular dungeons, or even regular raiding. No PLD would ever be able to find a group anymore if that was the case

[Alphras]

The biggest example of this that I can think is A1S-A4S, where no group could succeed in early months without a Warrior in the party; in this case, they were essential.

Really? This is getting ridiculous. I mean WAR was really strong this raid tier and everyone knows that, so why make up stuff like this?

I haven't read the responses to this yet and I'm sure it's been refuted. I just also found it funny that the PLDs were perfectly fine in the months leading up to HW when everyone was positive that DRK would be competing for WAR's spot since everyone assumed they'd both be DPS tanks.

Generalization never helped anyone.

[Blitzace]

Its laughable. Yes, ofcourse. There are always classes that are better than others. Most obviously. But when you take them apart, and they are better in all aspects? I would say there is something wrong ^^

[Duelle]

...in actuality, at what SE deems "appropriate" gear levels for this content, it would not surprise me if PLD/DRK actually can be done. The problem is that combination will literally hold the rest of the group back performance wise, and requires a suboptimally-playing NIN (to maintain the Slashing debuff) to be viable. So the rest of the group has to work a lot harder to make up the difference.

Honestly (and I realize I'm going to get hate for this), WAR needs to be nerfed. Replace the 10% damage down with a 5% damage down, take away their slashing debuff (possibly just remove it from the game, since only WAR/DRK/PLD/NIN/SMR rely on it), and nerf their DPS to more reasonable levels, and the problem will be largely fixed.

I don't think you're going outside the reach of what is considered logical.

I mean, if anything this discussion seems to point to how much stock the devs have put in synergy and trying to force synergy through things like slashing debuff (not to mention that Storm Path's damage reduction is raid-wide because it affects the mob, not a WAR-only form of mitigation for them to keep up despite the intention seeming to be such).

Assuming we want group comps where anyone can join without creating these optimization issues, wouldn't it be worth it to get rid of damage debuffs (slashing, blunt) or make them universal in some way?

[alimdia]

Did a3 pld drk no ninja