Why should warriors get a free pass to all savage content?

[Alphras]

Look at at video you Link @ 8:19 to 8:23 warrior animation from using Storms Path, u can't see it on buff cuz is not focus target.
a3 might be survival w/ a lot of preparations, devine veil, deploy ect. but warrior is just better for early progression, even if you could survive w/o it, it leaves more room for error with warrior.

Here you have one with focus target.

And there is a huge difference between "leaves more room for error" and mandatory.

Honestly (and I realize I'm going to get hate for this), WAR needs to be nerfed. Replace the 10% damage down with a 5% damage down, take away their slashing debuff (possibly just remove it from the game, since only WAR/DRK/PLD/NIN/SMR rely on it), and nerf their DPS to more reasonable levels, and the problem will be largely fixed.

The Problem wont be fixed. You would just move WAR to the lowest end of the food chain.

[karateorangutang]

This again? I had to double check to make sure it wasn't a necro thread.

This has been discussed to death with all manner of fixes suggested by many different parties, including WAR's suggesting debuffs to the class that make sense. WAR isn't broken good. It's utilities are good, but not broken. I agree that all tank jobs should have access to slashing debuff. Nerfing WAR to oblivion isn't gonna fix anything becasue then you'll have a bunch of WAR's switch to the jobs that do work, and you'll still be in competition.

They already are nerfing tank damage on the whole and if they do that then tank DPS matters less than before. All WAR would need is a nerf to equilibrium and raw intuition to bring it in line defensively.

DRK OT is pretty bad outside of DPS as well.

[Alphras]

I still don't understand why they didn't put Reprisal just on a cooldown and removed this silly parry proc.

[Jpec07]

One thing that gets me about this: in 3.2 and for the rest of the patch, the gear is going to be role-specific, instead of job-specific. This means that progression on one job will not hurt progression of the others, and that tanks will be able to switch jobs as encounters need and as they are comfortable/competent. The only thing lacking will be the weapon, but given that encounters are going to see relaxed DPS checks, that probably won't matter as much.

There is already a "QQ nerf war plz" thread though. And SE answered. They said "screw this, we're gonna up everyone else" (but forgot to up DRK. Damn).

Are you talking about the "Let's Nerf WAR! " thread? Because that started as a hypothetical satirical thought experiment to see how angry Warriors would get at even the idea of nerfs, and no one in the thread (at least for the first 20 pages or so) actually wanted Warrior to be nerfed. Because let's face it, the job is damn fun.

this mentality is just moar QQ

Sure, let's have 3 garbage jobs that can't synergy with anything when we could up/tweak the other 2 to have better results for everyone. /sigh

Except not really? When it's a choice between nerfing one (over)powerful job and buffing two otherwise performant jobs, the clearer answer is to nerf the one. Which they kind of did, when you look at the cumulative effect of tank changes in 3.2. While substantial buffs to PLD and DRK would be nice, the easier path would be to nerf Warriors into submission.

And really, unless I'm sorely mistaken, there isn't much synergy between the other jobs anyway. The only one that seems to kind of lend support to the others (besides "support" pseudo-jobs like AST, BRD, and MCH) is NIN, whose slashing debuff directly affects only the tanks, and DRG, whose piercing debuff helps BRD and MCH (though I'd also like to see a Fencer tank who benefitted from that, but that's another discussion for another time).

The Problem wont be fixed. You would just move WAR to the lowest end of the food chain.

No, it would bring them to the middle of the pack. The problem is that in their attempt to encourage groups to bring Warriors to raids, SE made the mistake of giving them so much utility that a group without one would literally suffer for it. That's not good job design, that's just forcing people's hands. If they nerfed them to where everyone else was suddenly competitive again, yes, they'd see less desirability for raid comp. But going from "completely essential" to "equally viable option for the role" does not suddenly mean that Warriors will make like the Hyur Cinematic WoL and drop their axes. It just means that groups who want to form will not be at the mercy of their servers' Warrior populations.

[Alphras]

Nope sorry. You would just replace WAR with DRK or PLD and we would have the next wave of rage and cynicism filled posts at our hands.

Funny how that doesn't happen over at the healer forums.

[Jpec07]

Nope sorry. You would just replace WAR with DRK or PLD and we would have the next wave of rage and cynicism filled posts at our hands.

Funny how that doesn't happen over at the healer forums.

So your argument against nerfing Warriors out of the top spot is that it would mean someone else suddenly takes over the top spot? I don't follow your logic.

We're talking about nerfing Warriors to affect balance between the three tanks. Instead of Warriors getting recruited to content because they're Warriors that are needed for content, they'd be recruited because they're tanks. Instead of Warriors relying on their job for a raid spot, they'd suddenly have to rely on their skill.

No one is talking about throwing them to the back; they're talking about bringing them back to the middle. And if you can't handle the idea of having to rely on your skill at the game to be able to be selected for groups instead of the job you picked, then perhaps you need to choke up on your tanking skills and stop getting bothered at the idea that someone on the internet thinks your overpowered job should be cut down to size.

[Kuwagami]

snip

No matter what you do, there will ALWAYS be one job slightly above the other 2 and thus getting a prefered spot in the parties of the idiotic mass. Nowadays it's WAR, in the future it will be something else.


Really, I'm strating to think that PLDs are just salty that they aren't the god-tier tank anymore. It's funny how they were all against a WAR buff in 2.0 cuz "war is fine", and now don't want a buff to their class but instead a nerf to war.

[Alphras]

I am not against nerfing WAR. I am against the particular nerfs you proposed. At least all of them at the same time.

[Jpec07]

No matter what you do, there will ALWAYS be one job slightly above the other 2 and thus getting a prefered spot in the parties of the idiotic mass. Nowadays it's WAR, in the future it will be something else.

Unless they balance it right. They've shown they can do that with healer and DPS jobs, they just don't want to piss off the tanking community by doing it with Warriors (can you imagine the backlash?).

Really, I'm strating to think that PLDs are just salty that they aren't the god-tier tank anymore. It's funny how they were all against a WAR buff in 2.0 cuz "war is fine", and now don't want a buff to their class but instead a nerf to war.

Really, I'm strating to think that WARs are just salty because they've enjoyed the god-tier slot for so long. It's funny how they're all against any kind of nerf to their job in 3.x cuz "war is fine", and now are calling for a buff to other jobs to make them equally overpowered instead of accepting that they might need a nerf from the huge buffs they got in 2.1 and 3.0.

I am not against nerfing WAR. I am against the particular nerfs you proposed. At least all of them at the same time.

The problem is that any one of things will make Warriors desirable over the other two tanks in all situations, if left alone. Maybe they don't need the numbers I proposed, but all of those aspects would need to be somehow addressed if they were to try to balance progression tanking in FFXIV.

[Alphras]

Progression will never be balanced and never was in any game. There will always be compositions that will be superior no matter that. The more jobs we get the more apparent it will become.