Please do something about Living Dead

[Lambdafish]

No, anyone who defends something just for the sake of defending is indeed a white knight. Why you people even care about the change if you dont even play the job is beyond me. And nice job ignoring the rest of what i wrote. Accusing me of straw manning while not providing any arguments or counter arguments to what i said , the irony is delicious i guess

I'm fighting a drove of "If it ain't totally broken why fix it" which is the typical response to anything in this forums

1. I actually am levelling the job as we speak, and will be using it raids.
2. I don't need to provide any arguments, as others have done that and then some, I would only be repeating others sentiments.
3. I actually really like living dead as is, it could do with some tiny minor tweaks to do with when the heal hits (as stated by others), but thematically and functionally it fits with DRKs toolset, and provides a good mitigation tool that is on par with holmgang, but weaker (and cheaper) than hallowed.
4. Look back at this thread, not a single person has wholeheartedly shared your opinion, I think that says something about what you are saying and you should really evaluate that.

[technole]

Yes, Hallowed Ground is the epitome of an "oh shit" awesome button. However, Dark Knight - in my view - is substantially better off than a warrior is.

No, Holmgang is way better than LD simply because of the low cooldown time of 3 minutes. Like that allowed two uses in A1S back in the early days when we had to deal with 3 jumps, the other tank jobs couldn't even say the same about their immunities. Plus you can heal yourself with Equilibrium right after. The bind and target is just a hinderance. But it's far better than LD because the Warrior can address the 1 HP themselves before a healer can, not to mention other cooldowns to address HP. It's not even close, Holmgang is way better.

[Aryalandi]

the ones who just then keep strawmanning, like you, talk about the topic as im not replying anymore otherwise

Never said you didn't give an argument along with your insults, last part just invalidated your entire post because its childish, you see what i mean?

Also your argument earlier was that the ability pushes the healer in the party too hard, then when a healer disagreed and said they see nothing wrong with the ability you essentially told said healer how to do their job before later claiming that people who don't main a job have no right to tell those that do so how to do it.

You are defeating your own arguments while ignoring people who disagree with you and insulting their intelligence because you have an issue with something and they do not. That is a fact that cannot be debated because I am a strawmanning white knight and won't let it go~

[Pibz]

Healers not healing is exactly how a DRK dies through Living Dead, hence I said, the healers that let you die through LD will let you die when you use your immunity no matter what tank you're playing, bads are bads.

Yes and the issue is that the other 2 tank "ohcrap" abilities don't require anywhere near the same amount of coordination and healer involvement as Living dead is , in hallowed's case it requires none but that ok because it has the longest CD to counterbalance that, and thats the ONLY issue i have. Of course if you have a good team it can be managed. But again issue is,

Hallowed has the highest cd and no healer involvement required- fine because it has a really long cd timer;

Holmgang needs significantly more healer involvement but counter balances it by having a lower cd timer;

Living Dead requires the biggest amount of healer involvement, coordination and is still the 2nd largest cooldown timer. The only thing that it has going for it, is that if you manage to pull it off it's quite good for very niche situations, but this doesn't balance out the rest.

[Mike555]

Healers not healing is exactly how a DRK dies through Living Dead, hence I said, the healers that let you die through LD will let you die when you use your immunity no matter what tank you're playing, bads are bads.

I dunno I can use Equilibrium + Second Wind to get to healthy levels after Holmgang as Warrior. I don't think LD is as bad as the OP is suggesting but it's still the weakest of the 3 except in very, very specific niche cases

[dekal]

LD is alright. The only problem I see with LD is not with the drk, but with the inexperienced healers. As someone else mentioned before, in regular df runs LD should not be used whatsoever at least the drk got greedy and start making extremely big pulls and the healer is not experienced or just lazy and let you die if you used LD.

If it were an old ex primal, it shouldn't even be used (including Bismark ex) because your ilvl gears compensate any mechanics. I read that thok was mentioned, and you were complaining on how a healer have to use their CD to compensate your CD. Obviously what other time would a healer used for? When they go afk for 5 secs during the fight? There is not excuse to struggle healing.

@ Mike 555 yes but a lot of people preferred dtk cuz of its versatility of better CDs time of its other skills and better DPS compared to PLD, which has the lowest DPS out of the three tanks. I think that very well balance it out the weak DPS and long CDs that PLD have. Not even talking how drk can cross skills of pld while none other tank can do it.

[Pibz]

No, Holmgang is way better than LD simply because of the low cooldown time of 3 minutes. Like that allowed two uses in A1S back in the early days when we had to deal with 3 jumps, the other tank jobs couldn't even say the same about their immunities. Plus you can heal yourself with Equilibrium right after. The bind and target is just a hinderance. But it's far better than LD because the Warrior can address the 1 HP themselves before a healer can, not to mention other cooldowns to address HP. It's not even close, Holmgang is way better.

Thank you, why this is so tough to get through is beyond me.

I dunno I can use Equilibrium + Second Wind to get to healthy levels after Holmgang as Warrior. I don't think LD is as bad as the OP is suggesting but it's still the weakest of the 3 except in very, very specific niche cases

That is exactly what im saying though. Never said it was horrible just that the other ones are significantly better, and it's definitely good in very specific cases.

4. Look back at this thread, not a single person has wholeheartedly shared your opinion, I think that says something about what you are saying and you should really evaluate that.

That is the worst kind of argument possible. I said i wouldn't reply to this kind of off topic stuff anymore but this is just too much, that is just not how being wrong/right works.

[Fyce]

So, the "issue" is that you'll need to use one extra heal GCD or a healing cooldown to top off a DRK because of tanks going full VIT?
Woah, big deal...

Our group has been raiding for a few months now and we're a pretty average group. Not a single time Living Dead was an issue, so this "new problem because of VIT" won't change anything.
We'll probably ask our DRK to pair it with Convalescence just to be sure the first times, but then realize it's not even necessary, and forget about it.

I'll now end my post with a very famous quote from a wise man who understand this very specific subject:

"... Whatever."
- Squall Lionheart

[DeeColon]

I dunno I can use Equilibrium + Second Wind to get to healthy levels after Holmgang as Warrior. I don't think LD is as bad as the OP is suggesting but it's still the weakest of the 3 except in very, very specific niche cases

I would disagree with that, I've spent plenty of time on all three tanks and all three heals, to me Holmgang used in a genuine "oh shit" situation is by far the riskiest tank immunity to use because of just how short the duration is, 6 seconds flat, Holm gets used 1 - 2 seconds before the tank "dies" leaving the healer with only 1 - 2 GCDs before god mode is gone, and pretty often in dungeon situations that oh shit Holmgang has the tank trapped in multiple AoE markers so they're often slammed back down to 1 HP or close to it again before the buff expires. Getting a war back from that takes a lot better reaction time than a DRK from what feels like centuries long Walking Dead.

[technole]

Yeah, in Gordias Savage I can't think of any situation where LD was ever a hinderance. You didn't even need it in A1S because DA+DM was the best magical cooldown ever. For A3S, you used it as a planned cooldown to eat the first hand cleave for more dps, plenty of time to deal with it, and WHM would let them sit on the WD status for a few seconds. For A4S sac method and handling the buster, Healer LB3 would address it. In raiding, it's not so much an oh snap button but rather a planned cooldown.

VIT won't really change things, and not to mention item level inflation will have healers getting more MND on the same token to heal more. So a lot of this is just huff-and-puff.