The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Odett]

You obviously didn't read because as I stated being a level 60 isn't the reason why I think this system is going to fail. It's the fact that a player who doesn't have all the 3 areas at 60 CAN be more knowledgeable on the basics of this game such as editing the hotbar in the settings, text customizations, display customizations and even overall helpfulness. Not one of those things I just listed is granted to you by level 60 and not everyone at level 60 even knows about some of those features, such as the extended crossbar function for the ps4. But you and everyone who thinks having a level 60 in all three categories means you're the most knowledgeable about the basics of this game just go ahead and keep thinking that.

and I, meeting the requirements, also know about those things, so again, you're not proving anything at all here.

Should've worded it better, but I couldn't think of anything else. My word-choice has never been very good. I basically just meant players that aren't interested in helping and are only after rewards. Also this interview states that there are achievements tied to the mentor roulette, it's the third question. I really don't think it should have rewards either though, someone should be a mentor simply because they want to be one and to help newer players, they shouldn't need some title or achievement. But that's just my opinion.

I completely agree with you.

What he's trying to say is what I've been trying to say before. The mentoring requirements are built around the Heavensward world rather than the A Realm Reborn world which makes the requirements bad.

(that's because endgame currently exists at Heavensward)

You're scenario makes sense except it is completely irrelevant to mentoring as those people are only exposed to the basic fundamentals shown to them with in the first 40hrs..

It's not irrelevant at all. Let me quote myself in a post I directed at you earlier in order to avoid redundancy:

@Toguro
I definitely agree that 40 hours is too short for a player to be considered a newbie, but think of that mentor period more as an icebreaker. After they're no longer newbies, you can add them to your friends list, or make a linkshell if the player would like further guidance into the game.

If you were a lv50 Tank, DPS, and Healer for 2 years or since 2.x release, what more have you learned about fundamentals to teach newbies as 60? Only 5 (easy)dungeons from 51-59 and 5 abilities that in no way effect basic fundamentals..

and these are things that you would never state had you leveled a tank to 60. Due to the massive amounts of HP that WARs are able to regenerate through Bloodbath+IR+Berserk in their offensive stance, as well as PLD getting two combos on their way to 60, the tanking fundamentals radically change from "keep agro" to one that rewards utility combos and aggressive play (something you can't do as a PLD at 50), but again, you neither know or can provide insight on these things because you somehow think that having a level 30 Marauder means you know how to tank.

But I'm not able to be apart of this system, how hard is that too understand?

Nothing is stopping you except yourself from meeting the requirements.

THERE IS NO POINT TO MAKE THE REQUIREMENT OF ALL 3 CLASSES AT 60.

and repeating the same thing over and over won't make you correct either

But guess what? I'll be locked out of achievements and titles when they come out because of a gaming preference

If your intentions are selfish, then it's probably best you don't become a mentor in the first place.

[BlatantPyre]

...and these are things that you would never state had you leveled a tank to 60. Due to the massive amounts of HP that WARs are able to regenerate through Bloodbath+IR+Berserk in their offensive stance, as well as PLD getting two combos on their way to 60, the tanking fundamentals radically change from "keep agro" to one that rewards utility combos and aggressive play (something you can't do as a PLD at 50), but again, you neither know or can provide insight on these things because you somehow think that having a level 30 Marauder means you know how to tank.

Please tell me how any of that comes into play in the first 40 hours of gameplay.

(Please note that some of what you say, I agree with. It seems some people on this thread have misunderstood my first post, but that's alright. I believe that many people who are holding to extremes in this debate are missing valid points on both sides. Normally I would say in specific arguments, one side does tend to hold closer to accuracy, but in this I'm realizing that many aspects being brought forth on both accounts are valid. I'm calling out this point just in case something is being missed, for though many things you've said are true, I believe you might be making this specific point simply to counter an argument of the opposing side without realizing something...so please, I would like to know whether that is the case or if it is myself that is missing something.)

[Odett]

Please tell me how any of that comes into play in the first 40 hours of gameplay.

Can I quote myself for the second time?

@Toguro
I definitely agree that 40 hours is too short for a player to be considered a newbie, but think of that mentor period more as an icebreaker. After they're no longer newbies, you can add them to your friends list, or make a linkshell if the player would like further guidance into the game.

there you go

I also explained in earlier posts why having a tank at lv 30 gives you an extremely vague idea of what tanking is like, and does not make you fit for answering more technical questions provided by a pupil beyond what you know very little of. I can't be the only person that when choosing a class in an MMO, goes on youtube to see what it looks like at endgame.

[BlatantPyre]

You didn't answer me.

I will try again...How do any of the mechanics brought forth in HW endgame come into play in the first 40 hours of gameplay? Adding people to friends list and linkshell will occur regardless of the mentor system...so why should these mechanics matter for a mentor, specifically?

[Judah_Brandt]

You didn't answer me.

I will try again...How do any of the mechanics brought forth in HW endgame come into play in the first 40 hours of gameplay? Adding people to friends list and linkshell will occur regardless of the mentor system...so why should these mechanics matter for a mentor, specifically?

To be completely and objectively fair, I mean, a new player could ask questions regarding that particular subject. Especially if they're a new player with an MMO background. That's an extremely skewed case, most likely, but plausible nonetheless.

Honestly, though, you have to consider the metrics that they were capable of gauging. With the excessive nerfing of the experience required to get to level 50 in the first place, it is fair to say that someone could do it in a relatively short amount of time. There was a post of a guy with a sprout who had "The Final Witness" title, which means not only did he get to level 50, he got carried trough Coil in under 40 hours. Crazy, yes, but it happened. They probably have an excessive amount of data that they went off of in order to set these standard requirements. I doubt they just arbitrarily threw darts at a wheel and said how many classes to 60....it landed on three, so three!

They generally have a plan, however odd it may seem to us.

[Toguro]

..

As a true newbie to this game and MMOs, it took a month for me to get level 23. I remember getting killed by Lazy Laurence. Wish I had a mentor to tell me its 30x stronger than regular bosses...


I saw its hp go down from an attack and thought I could beat it..

[Odett]

You didn't answer me.

I will try again...How do any of the mechanics brought forth in HW endgame come into play in the first 40 hours of gameplay? Adding people to friends list and linkshell will occur regardless of the mentor system...so why should these mechanics matter for a mentor, specifically?

Because for the people that will use the mentor system for more than achievements, it's not far-fetched at all to imagine that they'll keep in contact with the people that they were mentoring. I am aware that it counts regardless, but having the mentor system will make it much easier for people seeking help to see who those willing to help are, so it's not outside the bounds of possibility that some of these players will ask questions about things that can happen outside their 40 hour green-leaf period. Being a lv 60 in every role will better suit the mentor in order to answer such questions.

Think of it like this, if you were designing a mentor system, would you make the requirements something that barely gives potential mentors the tools to get by and answer questions in very broad and vague terms, or make the requirements a little tougher in order to better improve the odds that a mentor can answer any question pertaining to a role? I am aware that being a level 60 in no way makes you an expert, but it's the minimum requirement for you to be an expert. I'm not sure I'm wording this as best as I can, so my apologies for that, but when you see a lv 60 player, there are 2 possibilities: they can either be really good at their job and be able to explain specific questions, or they can't, as opposed to seeing a lv 30 player, where the answer automatically becomes the latter.

Moreover, I mentioned in a previous post how it's very rare to see people who play all 3 roles have just one of each (one tank, one DPS, and one healer), and more often than not, (or every time, to be honest, I've yet to see a person who chose to play all 3 roles just have one of each at least 6 months after a level cap increase), making that a requirement greatly heightens the odds that a mentor can answer a more job-specific question, as people who have one of each role at 60 have higher odds of having other jobs at 60 as well.

What I'm trying to get at is that a lot of players are failing to see the mentor system, or rather, what might happen after the first 40 hours, and the development team more than likely saw that coming and decided to implement requirements that will make a mentor much more capable in helping others during their green leaf period, and after as well.

[BlatantPyre]

<last couple o' posts>

Your point is well taken, Odett. None of what you said I disagree with. I have not been against the lvl 60 requirement, in fact I understand the same logic that you see in it's implementation. That being said, the notion that knowledge of endgame mechanics should be necessary for a mentor is simply not true. The idea that the mentor system will be a springboard for future in-game relationships is true, and precisely one of the problems many who are locked out of this system are having a problem with: they will be alienated to a degree at this point. Now, I agree, if someone wants to become a mentor, earn the requirements; I never said otherwise. Certain peoples playstyles, chosen playstyles, may bar them from that, and that's just how it is. I'm not okay with that, but I can't complain about it either, not really, because requirements are needed, and no matter what they are, someone will be locked out of it simply because of how they choose to play, it's unavoidable. What I AM trying to get at is that having the requirements be lvl 50 instead will still have a desired effect in rooting out those who don't understand the role-system: HW mechanics are not required for this. Yes, people might ask questions about current endgame content, but that isn't the purpose of the mentoring system - it's to learn the basics of the MMO genre and how they come into play in FFXIV. Should people who are fully capable of properly teaching such things, who have a desire to help people and have the skill and knowledge to back it up, not be able to do so simply because they haven't spent the money for an expansion?

[Odett]

Your point is well taken, Odett. None of what you said I disagree with. I have not been against the lvl 60 requirement, in fact I understand the same logic that you see in it's implementation. That being said, the notion that knowledge of endgame mechanics should be necessary for a mentor is simply not true. The idea that the mentor system will be a springboard for future in-game relationships is true, and precisely one of the problems many who are locked out of this system are having a problem with: they will be alienated to a degree at this point. Now, I agree, if someone wants to become a mentor, earn the requirements; I never said otherwise. Certain peoples playstyles, chosen playstyles, may bar them from that, and that's just how it is. I'm not okay with that, but I can't complain about it either, not really, because requirements are needed, and no matter what they are, someone will be locked out of it simply because of how they choose to play, it's unavoidable. What I AM trying to get at is that having the requirements be lvl 50 instead will still have a desired effect in rooting out those who don't understand the role-system: HW mechanics are not required for this. Yes, people might ask questions about current endgame content, but that isn't the purpose of the mentoring system - it's to learn the basics of the MMO genre and how they come into play in FFXIV. Should people who are fully capable of properly teaching such things, who have a desire to help people and have the skill and knowledge to back it up, not be able to do so simply because they haven't spent the money for an expansion?

I mostly agree with you. It's true that some players may experience some level of alienation from this, but it's not like they're banned either from being a mentor should they not meet the requirements from day one. I get that the main point of the mentor system is not to teach endgame, but that still won't stop new people from asking what their job in endgame will be like. Unfortunately, you do need to spend money for the expansion in order to answer such questions, and having a level 60 might make it possible that you'll be able to meet their question with an appropriate answer, whereas only getting to lv 50 will guarantee that your answer will be "I don't know". Again, it's better from a developer's standpoint to make requirements where it is possible for the mentor to answer as many questions as possible in regards to role performance, responsibilities, and toolkits, than to make requirements lax enough to guarantee that some of these questions will go unanswered.

[Toguro]

.

I agree I said exactly this repeatedly in this thread. That it would be way better to have it at 50.

.

If they are asking about lv60 end-game content in something(which is absolutely possible), then maybe they need to go somewhere else for help? That's like you're in 1st Grade and you ask about college stuff. You're asking in the wrong place. And also, you're teacher may not know!

and it took me less than that, in 2.0 where main scenario quests gave half the experience they do now, when there was no challenge log to give you bonus experience, and there was no daily "leveling roulette", to hit 50. You can't base your experience around everyone else because others will either level much faster, or much slower than you did.

I started in November 2014. I didn't know about any of the bonus experience, the importance of leveling roulette.. actually pretty much everything that had to do with getting more exp.