POLL: Best healer for 4 mans?

[Neela]

ah k talking about mp-management i see - thx

[zuzu-bq]

Then again, I'm used to tanking half the mobs anyway. What's with tanks thinking they can keep aggro with two Unleasheds/Overpowers/Flashes? ._.

This is quite funny and happens really often, specially when the Tank is a Paladin.

[technole]

Holy/Blood Price issue is a bit overblown, considering stun is preventing damage for quite a bit of time and doing damage at the same time whereas BP is depending on the DRK getting hit for MP. The WHM is going to be doing more damage in the long run.

Most complaints are because they are too happy to drain their MP too much for skills like AB when they didn't really need to zero out, you have the aggro already, you just want to do more damage even in Grit, we get it. The bad DRKs just don't know how to recover correctly.

While BP should be used on cooldown anyway. For the emergency MP boost, DRK should be using Carve and Spit, and keep using Souleater combo to keep MP up in the long run. A good DRK one will ensure they keep enough MP to handle chain pulling. Think of Warrior Overpower, you wouldn't be spamming it and running dry on TP out of necessity.

[Garflex]

WHM's are easily the best DPS when it comes to dungeons. I regularly beat DPS while also healing, this includes AoE classes like BLM and SMN. Very good SMN's/BLM's can beat me though, along with skilled MNK's. SCH certainly has good AoE and single target DPS but WHM's are a step above. Holy stun + Regen keeps a tank topped off and combo'd with a Bene or Asylum/Tetra makes it so I only have to cast 1-2 Cure II's on the biggest pulls. Smaller pulls require no Cure's at all. Aero III and Assize are 2 of the best AoE spells in the game, and even after the Holy nerf it's still insane, the stun is what makes it so special though. The biggest issue with WHM is MP management, which can be solved by using Assize and Shroud of Saints regularly when they're off CD. Using the Holy stun's to your advantage by stunning the mobs and killing them quicker also helps negate the MP management issue.

[Garflex]

Dark Knights generally rely on Blood Price to keep their MP going for large pulls, which needs them to get directly struck to get it to activate. Holy stunning everything stops the mobs hitting the Dark Knight. Thus their MP regeneration becomes screwed over. With bad timing/communication, Holy (7 sec stun total) can easily cause half of Blood Price (15 sec duration) to go to waste, which is a large chunk of MP lost.

Then again, I'm used to tanking half the mobs anyway. What's with tanks thinking they can keep aggro with two Unleasheds/Overpowers/Flashes? ._.

This is a valid point but it can be easily fixed by the DRK waiting to use Blood Price until the 3rd stun goes off. Simply looking at the healers cast bar fixes this issue.

[Auroc]

I've had all three healers work wonderfully. In terms of raw power and speed I still prefer to have a whm with me.

[Garflex]

If you have 6 mobs that's 975 potency and the 3% buff half the time. A WHM using Holy will be pulling 200 + 180 + 160 + 140 + 120 + 100 (Total 900) and Aero 3 40 (Total 240) is pulling 1140 without a fairy healing or the buffs.

WHM will come out on top still, but SCH definitely packs a punch. (Due to set up time, Assize and such)

You will almost always have Assize up for each pull, so that must be factored in. Aero III = 370 Potency to everything it hits. So, 370 Aero III + 150 Holy(Average) + 300 Assize = 820 potency to everything, 2 of them being consistent throughout the pull as long as MP allows the Holy spam, which it usually does for 3/4 of the pull.

[Kaeoni]

For the emergency MP boost, DRK should be using Carve and Spit, and keep using Souleater combo to keep MP up in the long run. A good DRK one will ensure they keep enough MP to handle chain pulling. Think of Warrior Overpower, you wouldn't be spamming it and running dry on TP out of necessity.

I'm not a professional Drk, but when i'm using Carve and Split I pair it with Dark arts (450 potency is hard to pass up lol, meaning no MP recover as well), I also Pair Souleater with Dark Arts. For good reason, the incredible increase in potency for both and the 100% Absorb on Souleater. Otherwise the recovery on souleater is pretty negligible. I NEVER use Carve and split without Dark arts. Maybe because I'm able to keep my MP at a decent rate with Grit/Darkside and Blood Weapon activation? Idk.

For an MP recovery combo I'd rather Delirium because of the increased dmg potency and potential debuff bar no mnk.. I mean in large pulls I suppose in terms of overall damage done, whm does have the advantage over Drk, but to me it's neither here nor there.

You might think it's overblown but if the time w/o resource recovery truly is 7 seconds that's kind of a big deal and a large loss of potential utility. It would be like taking stacks away from a warrior. The problem is Whm doesn't have a direct effect on how a warrior manages TP Or Stacks, but it does have a direct effect on how Drk manages MP. Ofc it's not some huge deal with some communication like ppl have said. whm is still just as viable as the other healers, even with Holy being used. But.. It is still something to take into consideration when the pair of them do inevitably come up.

There are always non-useless ways for drks to apply their MP in any situation, we can't just assume that all MP hungry drks are just squandering their MP away like idiots. Dark arts Souleater to me is bread n butter. I'd do it all day if I could. But there are also ways to mitigate dmg with our MP freeing any healer up to do other types of dmg like DoT's Stone3's and broils.... and w/e else... Astro has... fckin... Meteorite? Star shower? Whatever Give me card buffs slave >=(

Something to also keep in mind, Blood Price is also near worthless on single targets, It doesn't hurt or anything, but it's probably better to sit on it unless you're extremely hurting for MP or you're fighting a boss. But even then Blood Weapon is probably where it's at for those scenarios

We can go around in circles about it, and I'm not saying decent drks can't keep MP up with decent whms doin their Holy thing. However, at the end of the day your tanks MP takes priority and should be something healers should keep an eye out for incase they do need to recover MP. I frequently pull with lower than 20% MP because I have blood price up. That's not normally enough to keep threat. just saying be aware is all.

Edit: PLUS i'm sorta sick of people trashing tanks who're doing their best to learn a class. If they ask you not to Holy, for the love of god just spend an extra 5 minutes in a duty finder with them, mby some constructive criticism? But don't just inherently call them plebs just because they wanna try something new and tank for insta ques. Rome wasn't built in a day, Why does a tank need to be? Why does anyone need to be.

[Kaeoni]

This is a valid point but it can be easily fixed by the DRK waiting to use Blood Price until the 3rd stun goes off. Simply looking at the healers cast bar fixes this issue.

Yes this works. But a drk doesn't always have enough MP going into a pull for anything more than a single Unleash and a few MP to keep Darkside active for a few seconds. I frequently go into Pulls with intentions of immediately recovering my MP with Blood price. I don't have time for your Holy spam. If I waited you would now become the tank, and I don;t recover MP because everything is on you, we wipe. Is this the sign of a bad tank? I wouldn't say so. The alternative is to sit around and wait for my MP to recover so you can use Holy, wasting time Whm's hope their DPS shaves off.

I'm just saying be aware. Not to not use Holy.

EDIT: I could just ease up on my MP expenditure, but not only is that incredibly boring it also means I'm on the other side of the problem.
As I see it: There are 2 problematic scenarios when it comes to grasping Dark knight. Not spending your MP and Over expenditure. You want to be somewhere in the middle.
If you spend too much MP you're slowing the group down and making things difficult for everyone. MP is as essential, if not more so than TP to a Dark knight. But If you're not spending enough MP you're probably keeping threat fine but you're also not living up to your potential. It means you're probably not using Dark Arts as frequently as you should, which translates into Less dmg, recovery and mitigation.

[Garflex]

Yes this works. But a drk doesn't always have enough MP going into a pull for anything more than a single Unleash and a few MP to keep Darkside active for a few seconds. I frequently go into Pulls with intentions of immediately recovering my MP with Blood price. I don't have time for your Holy spam. If I waited you would now become the tank, and I don;t recover MP because everything is on you, we wipe. Is this the sign of a bad tank? I wouldn't say so. The alternative is to sit around and wait for my MP to recover so you can use Holy, wasting time Whm's hope their DPS shaves off.

On the first pull you will start with full MP, using a Blood Price once the Holy stun's wear off should give you enough MP to last until the Holy Stun's end on the next pull.

If I see DRK's struggling with MP I'll change my rotation to either Aero III + A couple Cure's/Regen if the pull is really big or Aero III + Aero II on the high HP mobs then go into Holy's.